Sauron The Balrog - Page 2

Dúnedain · 02-01-2003, 07:12 PM

Thanks for the backup Wayfarer

Yeah werewolves are certainly not Maia, they are just fell creatures....

Agburanar · 02-03-2003, 07:05 AM

So what was Sauron's connection with werewolves? I thought that was one of his shape changing states. That's why Grond (the ram, not the hammer) had a wolf's head and why I was confused that the film that shall not be named showe him with a ram's head. Surely a wolf would have been more appropriate.

Artanis · 02-03-2003, 07:27 AM

I think werevolwes are descendants of ordinary volwes who were captured and corrupted by Melkor in the First Age, just like Orcs are descended from Elves and Men.

The Great Spiders OTOH, were sprung from Ungoliant, who I think was a Maia corrupted by Melkor even before they descended into Arda.

The Warden of the Keys · 02-03-2003, 01:33 PM

Not all of the great spiders were offspring of Ungoliant. The first spiders that haunted Nan Dungortheb, soon after Angband was built, could possibly have been lesser Maiar for they are described as "foul creatures of spider form". This is perhaps where Ungoliant found mates after her flight into Beleraind.

Shelob was a decendent of the giant spiders of the glens of Nan Dungortheb and her offspring were found throughout the Ephel Duath, around Dol Guldur and in the fastnesses of Mirkwood.

Interestingly, Tolkien originally planned to have a horde of spiders attack Sam and Frodo at Kirith Ungol before he decided on the one giant spider.

Radagast The Brown · 02-03-2003, 03:37 PM

No, I don't think that Shelob is a maia. It doesn't make any sence, because if it was a maia it wouldn't have attacked Melkor (especially if Melkor corrupted it), knowing that he's much stronger then it.

Andúril · 02-03-2003, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Radagast The Brown:
No, I don't think that Shelob is a maia. It doesn't make any sence, because if it was a maia it wouldn't have attacked Melkor (especially if Melkor corrupted it), knowing that he's much stronger then it.

Easy tiger -- Shelob didn't attack Melkor.

The Warden of the Keys · 02-03-2003, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
No, I don't think that Shelob is a maia. It doesn't make any sence, because if it was a maia it wouldn't have attacked Melkor (especially if Melkor corrupted it), knowing that he's much stronger then it.

No one is saying that Shelob was of the Maiar

but Ungoliant certainly was. She was one of the first that Melkor corrupted but she left his service because she desired power of her own. After sucking the light from the Two Trees and consuming all the jewels stolen from Formenos; Ungoliant had grown in power and attacked Melkor out of lust for the light of the Silmarils.

Radagast The Brown · 02-03-2003, 04:06 PM

Yes, it (can I call Ungoliant she?) did. In Lamoth, after they destroyed the two trees in Valinor.

02-01-2003, 07:12 PM	#21
Dúnedain High King of Númenórë Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Númenórë <--United States of America Posts: 1,947	Thanks for the backup Wayfarer Yeah werewolves are certainly not Maia, they are just fell creatures.... __________________ 'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen

02-03-2003, 07:05 AM	#22
Agburanar Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dorset Posts: 608	So what was Sauron's connection with werewolves? I thought that was one of his shape changing states. That's why Grond (the ram, not the hammer) had a wolf's head and why I was confused that the film that shall not be named showe him with a ram's head. Surely a wolf would have been more appropriate. __________________ I would wish, were it to any avail, that the LORD OF THE RINGS FILMS had never been wrought. ROLLING STOCK, WE'RE ROLLING STOCK!!

02-03-2003, 07:27 AM	#23
Artanis Greatest Elven woman of Aman Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7 Posts: 4,285	I think werevolwes are descendants of ordinary volwes who were captured and corrupted by Melkor in the First Age, just like Orcs are descended from Elves and Men. The Great Spiders OTOH, were sprung from Ungoliant, who I think was a Maia corrupted by Melkor even before they descended into Arda. __________________ --Life is hard, and then we die.

02-03-2003, 03:37 PM	#25
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	No, I don't think that Shelob is a maia. It doesn't make any sence, because if it was a maia it wouldn't have attacked Melkor (especially if Melkor corrupted it), knowing that he's much stronger then it. __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

02-03-2003, 04:06 PM	#28
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	Yes, it (can I call Ungoliant she?) did. In Lamoth, after they destroyed the two trees in Valinor. __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

02-03-2003, 01:33 PM	#24
The Warden of the Keys Hobbit Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 19	Not all of the great spiders were offspring of Ungoliant. The first spiders that haunted Nan Dungortheb, soon after Angband was built, could possibly have been lesser Maiar for they are described as "foul creatures of spider form". This is perhaps where Ungoliant found mates after her flight into Beleraind. Shelob was a decendent of the giant spiders of the glens of Nan Dungortheb and her offspring were found throughout the Ephel Duath, around Dol Guldur and in the fastnesses of Mirkwood. Interestingly, Tolkien originally planned to have a horde of spiders attack Sam and Frodo at Kirith Ungol before he decided on the one giant spider.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Did Sauron imprison the Moria Balrog?	CAB	Lord of the Rings Books	35	08-22-2006 02:38 AM
Were the Nazgul free from Sauron for the most part of the Third Age?	Gordis	Middle Earth	141	07-09-2006 07:16 PM
Moria, Sauron, and the Balrog	Forkbeard	Lord of the Rings Books	40	10-22-2004 02:57 PM
Who is the Mouth of Sauron?	Maedhros	Lord of the Rings Books	11	09-15-2003 02:43 PM
The Rings Of Power	zavron	Middle Earth	14	01-08-2003 02:41 PM