lord of the rings= Allegory

[SilverToungedDevil]

Yet another is to do with individual growth, of the nature of the transformation of Strider into Elessar, of Gimli and Legolas relationship developing from a position of racial distrust to being the best of friends, of Pippin ( oops , put Perry in the previous post ) and Merry from being care free and child-like to great leaders of their people. There are probably other examples but it is getting late and I'm getting tired ... LOL

[IronParrot]

LOL! Perry and Mippin

[SilverToungedDevil]

LOL ... a bit of sympathy please ... I was rather cream crackered ...

[samwise of the shire]

Pride is a MAJOR problem the characters have to deal with and having the Ring exist does'nt seem to help. From what I've read it seems like the Ring took longer to control a humble person(ie:Frodo, Sam, Faramir)then it did a proud person like Saruman. He had never seen the Ring but just STUDYING it perverted him, yet it did not happen to Gandalf who studyed it as much or more then Saruman.
I also like the fact that the Flashier the better theme is NO where to be seen. Aragorn is a lowly ranger and yet he's a king, Gandalf walks around in Grey with a wood staf and he's a wizard and Frodo is a simple Hobbit and yet he saves the world. I think that's cool.
Sam

[Arathorn]

'been mining the search feature for insights and similarities between the ME universe and real-world beliefs (any) and found this one.

I find LoserKid1's and easterlinge's to be quite interesting. I'm trying to think of others after work but do you have imsights of your own?

Thanks.

[markedel]

Tolkien wrote somewhere the dwarves remind of Jews, and Khuzdul sounds an awful lot like Hebrew. I can't compare it to Arabic as I don't speak it.

Tolkien writes all over the place that in Middle Earth, as God is revealed there is no true religion. Only when God isn't revealed is religion needed.

That's why the elves-who will reach paradise don't have religion. Men on the other hand do.

I don't know about Gondor, but the Numenorians were ruled by priest-kings.

[Elvet]

I think it is more coincidental than anything. All the best stories are about the tension surrounding good and evil. Tolkien did it better than anyone else. His stories reflect a reality that strikes a chord in many of us, and his reality is more tangeble for me than any other religion or history could be.

[Renille]

Well if the dwarves are Jewish or Muslim, then perhaps the elves are "Christian?"

Tolkien did not want his pieces to be allegorical, I know. But since he was a Catholic and was in WWI, maybe these "allegories" were just his past experiences...little pieces of his soul.

[Liviaine]

I think Tolkien's work is influenced by the Bible. Sauron, Morgoth, and the Balrogs are all like Satan, some of the greatest of the Maiar who became evil. Satan was supposedly the most beautiful angel of all but became evil. Gandalf's kind of like the hobbits' guardian angel. I think Tolkien used symbols to represent the Bible.

[FrodoFriend]

I do NOT think that Tolkien used symbols to represent the Bible. He was a Christian, and of course his Christian/Western morality influenced the book; good and bad are depicted in the traditional western way.

However, I don't think Tolkien actively planned or meant to have LotR represent the Bible.

The parallels with the Jews and Dwarves are very interesting though. I doubt Tolkien meant to do that, but since the Jewish "character" already existed in our world, he may have incorporated it as the Dwarves without really thinking about it that way.

[Liviaine]

I don't think that he exactly meant to, but that's one of the things that came to mind while I was reading.

[markedel]

Well Gondor and Arnor (and Numenor) are supposed to be vaguely Egypt like in worldview, if not culture. But myth is never allegory, and LOTR is supposed to be myth. So in that sense I suppose it is biblical.

[Khadrane]

Tolkien was most likely influenced by the Bible, but it was most definitly not a true allegory. Besides Sauron being Satan, I can't find a parallel that completely works.

[Human#3.141592653]

This post is about the dubious nature of the effect of the Good Professor's chirtain background (and if he's catholic, I'm sorry,) on the creation of Middle earth. I'm almost certain that there is another post just liek this one, but I cannot find it for the life of me, so here is this. Enjoy.
In the preface (Pre-face, heh heh) (IE the letter to Milton) the Good Professor said over and over, "It is not an alleroy!"
However, the general idea of a fall and middle earth not being the place a pardise and the idea of those (elves) who live there beigng sent there out of punishment rig too Chirstian (or should I say, western thought; dualism.)
I wounder what the Middle earth would have been like if the good Professor had been indian (as in India, not the Natives of America.)
Any way, feel free to add comments or correct me if I have spoken out of turn, which happens alot.

[emplynx]

I don't think it is an allegory. But I that his christian ideals were definitely implanted in the story. I don't know that he couldn't have not made that happen. I think that all books follow a authors ideals in some way or another. Unconsciencly or consciencely

[Comic Book Guy]

Tolkien disliked Allegory of anykind.

I cordially dislike allegory in all it's manifeststations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect it's presence

The power of suggestion lets you see howa lot of things fit the Lord of the Rings.

[Wayfarer]

Your typing is awful, bu.

But I'll answer your question just the same:

The lord of the rings was not an allegory. It was a straight up, enjoyable fantasy yarn.

However, I think tolkien would agree with me when I say that christianity tends to spill over into every aspect of life-if it doesn't, there's a problem. And so you'll often find that literature by christians has a different flavour-and LOTR is a prime example. If you look at a (christian) author's writings pre- and post-christianity they're usually obviously different.

[Human#3.141592653]

Ok, ok. The peanut gallery says: Allegory sort of no, but you can't help the way you are raised, correct?
Ok, next question: Are the Ainur more of angel type beings or are they more along the lines of demi-gods? My question arises because Demi gods have more personality...they..argh. Ok, having problem expressing my idea, especially with Mirahzi looking over my shoulder and being a butt.
Yes, a butt.
Any way, Demi gods are created by the creator-god, but represent more of the human thing. Like Vishnu, [indian] god of chaos. Or Athena, goddess of knowledge. They have more human characteristic and represent human ideals.
Angles however were te first children of God, in my understsnding of it, and have no semblance of will. They cannot not represent human ideals, for humans do not exis yet. This seems to ring more true for the Ainur.
This is the idea that lead to this post were others may educate me ignorant "Tookish" self.
Um....yeah. One can't remember what else one was goign to say, so here ends the post.

[StrawberryIcecream]

"I dislike Allegory - the conscious and intentional allegory - yet any attempt to explain the purport of myth or fairytale must use allegorical language."
J.R.R. Tolkien

thought this was relevant.

[Eäráng]

Tolkien never liked allegories. He said so himself. We can see that. I'm using small sentences. No, seriously, Tolkien never said that his works were allegory. I believe that he employed the same writing style that "Jack" used for The Chronicles of Narnia books: supposition. If you said that his book had nothing to do with Christianity, he would probably kick you into next Tuesday. That's my theory, though. If it's wrong, you can sue me. Why do I keep using four-word sentences?