Modern ME - Page 2

Ñólendil · 04-24-2002, 10:05 PM

Thank you Eruviel, for your unwavering faith in practicality.

Quote:

I'm feeling bold, Nolendil. Must you be so technical and exact? It is my personal opinion that if Tolkien were here, he would be encouraging us to keep going with this.

No, I musn't, but I will

. I am only being 'so technical and exact' so as to be a pain, you can continue for as long as you want.

It is my personal opinion that if Tolkien were here he would be marveling at the wonders of electronic typewriters and trying to figure what exactly an online bulletin board is, and how to use it. So poo on you.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 04-25-2002, 02:54 AM

You are welcome, o Knowledgable One. *sniff* It helps to think that way. . .although I know I am certainly not living in the West. . .

galadriel88 · 04-25-2002, 06:23 PM

You traitor, Eruviel!!!!

Once the great professor got past all the technology differences, he'd be praising us for using our imaginations, after all, if he hadn't used his then there would be nothing ME related to discuss!!! Of course, he would have mentioned the fact that we are living in the 7th age, but he would then proceed to say, "But please do carry on, I'm finding this quite interesting and amusing."

Renille · 04-25-2002, 09:20 PM

I guess the living in the seventh age thing does make sense. But the elves, dwarves, hobbits, etc. aren't REAL elves, dwarves, hobbits etc. They only have the mentalities and thoughts. I know, I make no sense...sorry.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 04-26-2002, 01:24 AM

Galadriel88, how am I a traitor?

barrelrider110 · 04-26-2002, 09:34 AM

These are my thoughts:

The closest race of human to the Elves is the Native American, who co-existed in harmony with the land but were displaced by Europeans. Whole populations were decimated by disease to which Elves were immune. Perhaps the Elves who remained in ME lost their immortality, or “faded”, and emigrated to the Americas for a time, but once invaded, could no longer stand alone as a race.

I think the Orcs were interbred with humans, and exist today and are hard to distinguish physically from other humans. They show themselves in their actions. Power-hungry dictators, corrupt public servants, and the like all have Orc or Troll in them from somewhere in the past.

Hobbits are around, probably still exist in remote parts of Europe, but have grown so distrustful of big people that they hardly ever show themselves to us anymore, and if they do we mistake them for children.

Dwarves have disappeared altogether, or live in secret underground societies. Their steeped traditions and stoicism, which once marked them as a hardy race, failed to help them adapt to the changing world and contributed to their decline or demise.

viggosbeard · 04-26-2002, 10:21 AM

In my humble opinion -

I always thought that the orcs/Souron side of things represented modernisation ,mechanisation,the encroachment of industrialisation on merry old England / northern Europe. The coming of the age of man was going to be the struggle of this new way of life against the old way of the elves ie lots of trees and nature and being at one etc - oh well could be wrong.

barrelrider110 · 04-26-2002, 10:36 AM

viggosbeard,
Your opinion is highly valued. Tolkien was very much a Luddite who never wanted to live in the present time, but rather in saner ages long past and eternity. He witnessed first-hand the destructiveness of technology in WWI; his descriptions of Mordor eerily resemble the blasted-earth images of that terrible conflagration. I think he would have agreed with you.
My hypothesis was based on the assumption that we are living in the 7th Age or something like that.

viggosbeard · 04-26-2002, 10:52 AM

You could indeed be right - does it not say in the hobbit something about them being wary of big people and really good at hiding from us ??!!

Eruviel Greenleaf · 04-26-2002, 12:50 PM

Those are interesting thoughts. I think that is right, about Tolkien disliking the current age of technology and modernisation, and therefore the 'bad guys' being representative of that, although I would say more so (and less subtly) with Saruman, with his machinery and genetically modified orcs (the Uruk-Hai).
Barrelrider-I find your hypothesis to be quite interesting, though in my humble opinion, I disagree with a few points. First, I believe the elves would have departed beyond where humans could find them, rather than North America. The elves that stayed in Middle-earth, well, I don't know what happened to them but I think they all either departed West with the other elves, or faded in ME, but I don't think they would have immagrated to N. America.
Also, it would be nice to think that all the power-hungry dictators and corrupt officials and other such people are not quite human, and have some orc/troll ancestors, but humans do not need orc genetics to be immoral and power hungry. Also, orcs are not too bright, and it takes incredible cunning and intelligence to do some of the evil that has been done in our past. (think dictators in totalitarian governments pre-and during WWII.)
On the other hand, it is nice to think that Hobbits and Dwarves are there somewhere

Though with the disportionately small number of female dwarves, I have a hard time imagining they would still be here by now.

galadriel88 · 04-26-2002, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Galadriel88, how am I a traitor?

You took sides with a mod and not your fellow regular mooter.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 04-27-2002, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by galadriel88

You took sides with a mod and not your fellow regular mooter.

Yeah, I know.

But I happened to agree with said mod.

Elf Girl · 04-27-2002, 01:11 PM

*gasp* Traitor! But I agree too...

Eruviel Greenleaf · 05-02-2002, 12:31 AM

All must agree! THere is no other way--oh, sorry. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Even if it agrees with a mod.

galadriel88 · 05-03-2002, 11:30 PM

I know, I know, I was just messin with ya.

BTW, where is Nolendil? Has he given up?

Eruviel Greenleaf · 05-03-2002, 11:36 PM

Yeah, I know you were, Galadriel88.

I hope Nolendil hasn't given up. . .

Elf Girl · 05-04-2002, 07:17 AM

He will appear any minute now and shower us with popcorn and Snickers bars.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 05-04-2002, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elf Girl
He will appear any minute now and shower us with popcorn and Snickers bars.

Probably not. He reserves those just for me.

galadriel88 · 05-04-2002, 09:20 PM

***azalea*** · 05-04-2002, 09:30 PM

I would prefer living in a less mechanised world in some ways, but I would still want a toilet and certain toiletries, if you get my meaning.

04-25-2002, 02:54 AM	#22
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	You are welcome, o Knowledgable One. sniff It helps to think that way. . .although I know I am certainly not living in the West. . . __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

04-25-2002, 06:23 PM	#23
galadriel88 Halfwitted Queen of Lothlorien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Far off in a dream Posts: 1,166	You traitor, Eruviel!!!! Once the great professor got past all the technology differences, he'd be praising us for using our imaginations, after all, if he hadn't used his then there would be nothing ME related to discuss!!! Of course, he would have mentioned the fact that we are living in the 7th age, but he would then proceed to say, "But please do carry on, I'm finding this quite interesting and amusing." __________________ The beuatiful mind/The beautiful heart/Doesn't deserve the pain/How can I stop the rain? -How Can I Stop the Rain? by Kessid, my new favorite band +Every good thing that comes into my life is only a reflection of the greatest gift of all; the offering of yourself, dear Son of God+ Always remember, you're uniqe, just like everybody else! "The one constant through all the years has been the Trombone. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. Its been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again, but the Trombone has marked the time. This field, this section, this band is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that once was good, and could be again. Oh, people will come . . . people will most definitely come."

04-25-2002, 09:20 PM	#24
Renille Elven Lady of Speed-posting Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the cheese state Posts: 988	I guess the living in the seventh age thing does make sense. But the elves, dwarves, hobbits, etc. aren't REAL elves, dwarves, hobbits etc. They only have the mentalities and thoughts. I know, I make no sense...sorry. __________________ Oh the thinks you can think! Think and wonder and dream...far and wide as you dare! When your thinks have run dry, in the blink of an eye, there's another world there... (from Seussical the Musical. Listen to it...watch it...really.)

04-26-2002, 01:24 AM	#25
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	Galadriel88, how am I a traitor? __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

04-26-2002, 09:34 AM	#26
barrelrider110 Peer of the realm of Sanguine Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Hill, Marlton, NJ Posts: 798	So if we are in the 7th age, what happened to the Elves, Dwarves, Ents, Hobbits, Orcs These are my thoughts: The closest race of human to the Elves is the Native American, who co-existed in harmony with the land but were displaced by Europeans. Whole populations were decimated by disease to which Elves were immune. Perhaps the Elves who remained in ME lost their immortality, or “faded”, and emigrated to the Americas for a time, but once invaded, could no longer stand alone as a race. I think the Orcs were interbred with humans, and exist today and are hard to distinguish physically from other humans. They show themselves in their actions. Power-hungry dictators, corrupt public servants, and the like all have Orc or Troll in them from somewhere in the past. Hobbits are around, probably still exist in remote parts of Europe, but have grown so distrustful of big people that they hardly ever show themselves to us anymore, and if they do we mistake them for children. Dwarves have disappeared altogether, or live in secret underground societies. Their steeped traditions and stoicism, which once marked them as a hardy race, failed to help them adapt to the changing world and contributed to their decline or demise. __________________ “"I am the friend of bears and the guest of eagles. I am Ringwinner and Luckwearer; and I am Barrel-rider," Fear Complacency! ___________________ Something under the bed is drooling Last edited by barrelrider110 : 04-26-2002 at 09:36 AM.

04-26-2002, 10:21 AM	#27
viggosbeard Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey Posts: 247	In my humble opinion - I always thought that the orcs/Souron side of things represented modernisation ,mechanisation,the encroachment of industrialisation on merry old England / northern Europe. The coming of the age of man was going to be the struggle of this new way of life against the old way of the elves ie lots of trees and nature and being at one etc - oh well could be wrong. __________________ You cant resist her Shes in your bones Shes in your marrow And your ride home You cant avoid her Shes in the air In between molecules Of Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide Only in dreams

04-26-2002, 10:36 AM	#28
barrelrider110 Peer of the realm of Sanguine Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Hill, Marlton, NJ Posts: 798	viggosbeard, Your opinion is highly valued. Tolkien was very much a Luddite who never wanted to live in the present time, but rather in saner ages long past and eternity. He witnessed first-hand the destructiveness of technology in WWI; his descriptions of Mordor eerily resemble the blasted-earth images of that terrible conflagration. I think he would have agreed with you. My hypothesis was based on the assumption that we are living in the 7th Age or something like that. __________________ “"I am the friend of bears and the guest of eagles. I am Ringwinner and Luckwearer; and I am Barrel-rider," Fear Complacency! ___________________ Something under the bed is drooling

04-26-2002, 10:52 AM	#29
viggosbeard Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey Posts: 247	You could indeed be right - does it not say in the hobbit something about them being wary of big people and really good at hiding from us ??!! __________________ You cant resist her Shes in your bones Shes in your marrow And your ride home You cant avoid her Shes in the air In between molecules Of Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide Only in dreams

04-26-2002, 12:50 PM	#30
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	Those are interesting thoughts. I think that is right, about Tolkien disliking the current age of technology and modernisation, and therefore the 'bad guys' being representative of that, although I would say more so (and less subtly) with Saruman, with his machinery and genetically modified orcs (the Uruk-Hai). Barrelrider-I find your hypothesis to be quite interesting, though in my humble opinion, I disagree with a few points. First, I believe the elves would have departed beyond where humans could find them, rather than North America. The elves that stayed in Middle-earth, well, I don't know what happened to them but I think they all either departed West with the other elves, or faded in ME, but I don't think they would have immagrated to N. America. Also, it would be nice to think that all the power-hungry dictators and corrupt officials and other such people are not quite human, and have some orc/troll ancestors, but humans do not need orc genetics to be immoral and power hungry. Also, orcs are not too bright, and it takes incredible cunning and intelligence to do some of the evil that has been done in our past. (think dictators in totalitarian governments pre-and during WWII.) On the other hand, it is nice to think that Hobbits and Dwarves are there somewhere Though with the disportionately small number of female dwarves, I have a hard time imagining they would still be here by now. __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

04-27-2002, 01:11 PM	#33
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 3,419	gasp Traitor! But I agree too... __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

05-02-2002, 12:31 AM	#34
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	All must agree! THere is no other way--oh, sorry. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Even if it agrees with a mod. __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

05-03-2002, 11:30 PM	#35
galadriel88 Halfwitted Queen of Lothlorien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Far off in a dream Posts: 1,166	I know, I know, I was just messin with ya. BTW, where is Nolendil? Has he given up? __________________ The beuatiful mind/The beautiful heart/Doesn't deserve the pain/How can I stop the rain? -How Can I Stop the Rain? by Kessid, my new favorite band +Every good thing that comes into my life is only a reflection of the greatest gift of all; the offering of yourself, dear Son of God+ Always remember, you're uniqe, just like everybody else! "The one constant through all the years has been the Trombone. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. Its been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again, but the Trombone has marked the time. This field, this section, this band is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that once was good, and could be again. Oh, people will come . . . people will most definitely come."

05-03-2002, 11:36 PM	#36
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	Yeah, I know you were, Galadriel88. I hope Nolendil hasn't given up. . . __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

05-04-2002, 07:17 AM	#37
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 3,419	He will appear any minute now and shower us with popcorn and Snickers bars. __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

05-04-2002, 09:20 PM	#39
galadriel88 Halfwitted Queen of Lothlorien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Far off in a dream Posts: 1,166	LOL __________________ The beuatiful mind/The beautiful heart/Doesn't deserve the pain/How can I stop the rain? -How Can I Stop the Rain? by Kessid, my new favorite band +Every good thing that comes into my life is only a reflection of the greatest gift of all; the offering of yourself, dear Son of God+ Always remember, you're uniqe, just like everybody else! "The one constant through all the years has been the Trombone. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. Its been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again, but the Trombone has marked the time. This field, this section, this band is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that once was good, and could be again. Oh, people will come . . . people will most definitely come."

05-04-2002, 09:30 PM	#40
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	I would prefer living in a less mechanised world in some ways, but I would still want a toilet and certain toiletries, if you get my meaning.

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