Why didn't Elros' children get the choice?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I don't believe so. If they chose to stay in Middle-Earth, well, by then the time of the Elves was past, and there were few-no Elves or ships left, I believe.

[Earniel]

Eärendil and Elwing both choose to be counted among the elves. Their children Elrond and Elros were given the choice too. Elros chose mankind and his children were counted amongst such and could not choose. Elrond choose elfkind and since Arwen had to choose, I guess Elladan and Elrohir would eventually have to choose too. So I suppose whether or not their children would have the choice between mortality and imortality depended on the choice of their fathers.

[Elvellyn]

But what if they married a human??

[Gwaimir Windgem]

When an Elf (Elda at least) loves and weds a Man (that's what the race is called), then often the Elf chooses mortality, i.e. Arwen, Luthien (don't know about Idril).

[Wayfarer]

Idril did not become mortal, Tuor became Immortal and shared the fate of the elves, I believe.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Oh, yes, silly me. I remember now.

AnyWHO, if they wed a lady of Mannish race, then most likely either they would become mortal or their wife would become immortal.

[olsonm]

I always thought that Elrond and Elros were both mortal until they were given the choice by the Valar. So, while Elrond chose to become immortal (within the life of the Earth), Elros chose to stay mortal. If I'm correct to think the the Peredhil were born mortal, then Elros's children only ever had mortal blood (half-elven though it may have been) and the choice was never an option for them. I'm sure someone can tell me if the half-elven were born mortal.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Well, If by Halfelven you mean all of them, I'm sure Arwen wasn't, since she was was around for c (I think) 3000 years when she met Aragorn.

[olsonm]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Well, If by Halfelven you mean all of them

No, just the first ones before the choice. Earendil, Elwing, Elrond and Elros.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Then I don't know.

[olsonm]

Me either.

[Dúnedain]

I actually think they were born as elvenkind, and then after the voyage of Earendil & Elwing, they were then given the choice. At least when I read that in the Sil, even though they didn't give mention to it, I don't think (and I read it last night, lol), I read it as them being elvenkind and then deciding which line they would want.

Here is the passage from the Sil:

But when all was spoken, Manwë gave judgement, and he said: 'In this matter the power of doom is given to me. The peril that he ventured for love of the Two Kindreds shall not fall upon Eärendil, nor shall it fall upon Elwing his wife, who entered into peril for love of him; but they shall not walk again ever among Elves or Men in the Outer Lands. And this is my decree concerning them: to Eärendil and to Elwing, and to their sons, shall be given leave each to choose freely to which kindred their fates shall be joined, and under which kindred they shall be judged.'

.......

Then Eärendil said to Elwing: 'Choose though, for now I am weary of the world.' And Elwing chose to be judged among the Firstborn Children of Ilúvatar, because of Lúthien; and for her sake Eärendil chose alike, though his heart was rather with the kindred of Men and the people of his father.....

......

....In Middle-earth dwelt also Gil-galad the High King, and with him was Elrond Half-elven, who chose, as was granted to him, to be numbered among the Eldar; but Elros his brother chose to abide with Men. And from these brethren alone has come among Men the blood of the Firstborn and a strain of the spirits divine that were before Arda; for they were the sons of Elwing, Dior's daughter, Lúthien's son, child of Thingol and Melian; and Eärendil their father was the son of Idril Celebrindal, Turgon's daughter of Gondolin.

So with that said, here is my rendition of it. I think they were born as elvenkind and then the choice was to be thus or become mortal. The reason I say this is because we know that Arwen and her brothers lived for thousands of years before any choice was made. Also, the line of Men didn't have a choice, only those born into elvenkind. So any descendents of Elros were automatically mortal, whereas the descendants of Elrond were given a choice. Which would make sense and show that those born into elvenkind had the choice to revoke their elvishness to become mortal.

[olsonm]

Just before that Mandos said; "Shall mortal Man step living upon the undying lands, and yet live?"

[Ulmo]

You should not concretely say Elrohir and Elladan chose to be mortal.

Elrond passes Over Sea. The end of his sons, Elladan and ELrohir, is not told: they delay their choice, and remain for a while.

'remain a while' seems to imply they left later on.

Anyway, to answer the question at hand:

Letter No. 153

The view is that the Half-elven have a power of (irrevocable) choice, which may be delayed but not permanently, which kin's fate they will share. Elros chose to be a King and 'longaevus' but mortal, so all his descendants are mortal, and of a specially noble race, but with dwindling longevity: so Aragorn (who, however, has a greater life-span than his contemporaries, double, though not the original Númenórean treble, that of Men). Elrond chose to be among the Elves. His children - with a renewed Elvish strain, since their mother was CelebrÃ*an dtr. of Galadriel - have to make their choices.

There you have it.

Elrond, by choosing immortality, was still not an "elf" - his children got the choice because he married CelebrÃ*an, a full elf. This gave them a renewed Elvish strain.

Arwen married a mortal, and so did Elros; subsequently their children were mortal.

If Elladan and Elrohir married elves, their children would have the choice, presumably.

Anyway, someone said...

I actually think they were born as elvenkind, and then after the voyage of Earendil & Elwing, they were then given the choice.

Actually, the problem never arose. Dior, Elured, and Elurin were the only other half-elves, and they were slain (relatively) early on their lives. I would guess that the Valar never thought of the problem of the half-elven fate, or perhaps they did and were waiting on Eru's decision/intervention. To my knowledge, Tolkien did not address the fate of half-elven persons prior to Elrond, Elros, and their parents.

[Ulmo]

[Artanis]

Welcome to the Moot, O Lord of Waters!

Originally posted by Ulmo
Elrond, by choosing immortality, was still not an "elf" - his children got the choice because he married CelebrÃ*an, a full elf. This gave them a renewed Elvish strain.

Good point. But what if Elrond had married another Half-Elven? Of course there were no such candidates, but this is mere speculations ... would their children have a choice?

[Ulmo]

You're right - there were no other half-elven peoples.

But, hypothetically, yes, I suppose so.

Elrond's parents, Earendil and Elwing, were both half-elven, so I presume that the same would apply if Elrond and another half-elf were wed.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Ulmo
Elrond's parents, Earendil and Elwing, were both half-elven, so I presume that the same would apply if Elrond and another half-elf were wed.

That seem sensible enough. You're probably right.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Ñólendil
. Or anyway Elwing was 33% Elven, not counting Maian blood. For her father (Dior) was a Half-elf, and her mother (Nimloth) was a full-blooded Elf.

This caluculation may be altered by Luthien having been made mortal BEFORE Dior was concieved, thus having changed the nature of her Fea, but nescesaarily her genes.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Ulmo
Elrond's parents, Earendil and Elwing, were both half-elven, so I presume that the same would apply if Elrond and another half-elf were wed.

That's not entirely correct. Elwing wasn't half-elven, technically, although she is considered "half-elven", she actually is not. She was only a quarter mortal, as her mother Nimloth was Pure blooded Sindar, which would make Elwing five-eighths Sinda, one quarter Mortal and one eighth Maia.