The two towers - Page 2

olsonm · 03-18-2002, 12:15 AM

The reason it's confusing is simple. It's the word dominated. Orthanc clearly dominates Book III. Everything in the story revolves around it. That's why Tolkien thought of calling B-III 'The Treason of Isengard'. Book IV, however, is not dominated by any one focal point. Tolkien thought of calling B-IV 'The Ring Goes East'. The reason they chose Minas Morgul is because it means 'Tower of Sorcery', so it connects with Two TOWERS. It's still a stretch to say that it dominates the story more than any other part (Dead Marshes, Henneth Annun, the Stairs, Shelob's Lair, etc.).

***Khamûl*** · 03-19-2002, 12:08 AM

I'm with Orthanc and Minas Morgul.

Durin · 03-19-2002, 06:09 PM

I'm pretty sure it's Orthanc and Minas Morgul.

The White Rider · 03-21-2002, 12:30 PM

Viva de la Orthanc et la Minas Morgul!!

Brimvalir · 03-21-2002, 12:35 PM

How many different towers are there in Lord of the Rings??? - add any if I miss any

1. Minas Tirith
2. Minas Morgul
3. Orthanc
4. The Golden Hall

Radagast The Brown · 03-21-2002, 02:17 PM

I'm almost sure that the two towers are Minas Morgul and Orthanc... and I have nothing to add Brimvalir.

***Earniel*** · 03-21-2002, 02:22 PM

Minas Morgul and Orthanc? Really? Drat, I was always convinced it was Orthanc and Minas Tirith! Well, I thought there's all the action... Guess not then...

bropous · 03-21-2002, 02:34 PM

I also thought it was the tower at Cirith Ungol and Orthanc.

Pailan · 03-21-2002, 03:04 PM

I have always thought it was Orthanc and Barad-dur. The two principle locations of the forces trying to obtain the ring. But what the heck, there are enough towers to pick your own set and be right enough.

BeardofPants · 03-21-2002, 05:55 PM

Tolkien probably changed his focus while writing the book: but he explicitly said that it referred to both Orthanc, and Minas Morgul. This makes much more sense, because TT shifts focus alternately from Saruman, to Sauron.

Ñólendil · 03-21-2002, 06:14 PM

The Golden Hall isn't a tower Brimvalir. As I said above the only towers seen in The Two Towers are the tower in the Burg of the Hornburg, Orthanc, the Towers of the Teeth, Minas Morgul and (very briefly) the Tower of Cirith Ungol.

Christiana · 05-22-2002, 12:15 AM

Orthanc&MMorgul l MT&MM
16 l 6
l

So there!

Snowdog · 05-22-2002, 02:02 PM

My opinion and what I always thought since the first time I read the books was the Two Towers of Barad-Dur & Orthanc. Of course the defining battle with Sarumann happens and the Ents trash the place except Orthanc, and Strider battles Sauron via the Palantir, which is a defining moment that turns the coming battle and in my opinion changes Strider to Aragorn.

Christiana · 05-22-2002, 07:28 PM

Aragorn looks into the Pal. in ROTK

cassiopeia · 05-22-2002, 08:39 PM

In the letters Tolkien is undecided, so there is no right or wrong answer, in my opinion. If I were to guess, I would say Orthanc and Barad-Dur because Saruman and Sauron are the enemy: everything depends in some way on them. Plus the book (LOTR) was named after the enemy, so there is no reason why books 3 and 4 not refer to evil places.

Snowdog · 05-23-2002, 11:49 AM

Well, in the 8 readings I have done of the Lord Of The Rings since 1976, it all flows together with me as one big book, so go ahead and roll your eyes.

Guess I should read it again and note where the 'Book1, Book2, etc. pages are this time.

Nienna Grey · 05-25-2002, 01:14 AM

My understanding is that the two towers in question are Orthanc and Minus Morgul.

I think the TT movie trailer refers to them as being Orthanc and Barad-dur though but that's just for the purposes of the movie.

Samwise Gamgee · 05-28-2002, 03:31 PM

Fraid I hav 2 disagree, Grey. I don't think it is just for the purposes of the film. From the good guys point of view in the book there are two towers to fear ultimately, Orthanc & Barad-Dur. I no Sam&Frodo are scared silly when they see the Nazgul leaving MMorgul, but ultimately the real tower to fear is Barad Dur. Furthermore, these two make an alliance (fragile, given, but nonetheless an alliance), forming 'Two Towers' to be feared by the good guys. The reason I refer so often (well-twice) to the good guys is that it is always from their viewpoint we get the narrative, so it is fair to assume that the titles should come from their view.
Also, sum1 sed B-D & Orthanc cuz of the pal, well Denethor had 1 too, so that seems illogical.
________
property Pattaya

Snowdog · 05-28-2002, 03:59 PM

Most definitly not 'just' for the film. Like I said, my mind interpreted it as Barad Dur and Orthanc when I first read it in 1976.... WAY before even the cartoons and the release of the Silmarillion (not that those things have ant bearing on the discussion). My images will always be supreme and the movie just someone elses vision and adaptation of the Books.

BeardofPants · 05-28-2002, 05:43 PM

Lucky!

I've been reading 'em for 8 years or so, but my imagination is not that great when it comes to visualising characters and places, so I'll probably be doomed to a lifetime of imagining Orlando Bloom nancing around as Legolas. Ergh.

03-18-2002, 12:15 AM	#21
olsonm Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: minneapolis MN Posts: 920	The reason it's confusing is simple. It's the word dominated. Orthanc clearly dominates Book III. Everything in the story revolves around it. That's why Tolkien thought of calling B-III 'The Treason of Isengard'. Book IV, however, is not dominated by any one focal point. Tolkien thought of calling B-IV 'The Ring Goes East'. The reason they chose Minas Morgul is because it means 'Tower of Sorcery', so it connects with Two TOWERS. It's still a stretch to say that it dominates the story more than any other part (Dead Marshes, Henneth Annun, the Stairs, Shelob's Lair, etc.). __________________ Gandalf lives...oh and Frodo too. Haldir Lives!!!

03-19-2002, 12:08 AM	#22
*Khamûl* Slacker Warrior Admin Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,759	I'm with Orthanc and Minas Morgul. __________________ "If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you." Gandalf to Pippin Psalm 107:31

03-21-2002, 12:30 PM	#24
The White Rider Hobbit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Somewhere in the name of Arda Posts: 23	Viva de la Orthanc et la Minas Morgul!! __________________ Guiding everyone I can see... Straight to doom except for me.

03-21-2002, 12:35 PM	#25
Brimvalir Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: California Posts: 103	Two Towers How many different towers are there in Lord of the Rings??? - add any if I miss any 1. Minas Tirith 2. Minas Morgul 3. Orthanc 4. The Golden Hall __________________ Swords are of no more use here ... All that is gold does not glitter nor are all those who wander lost......

03-21-2002, 02:17 PM	#26
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	I'm almost sure that the two towers are Minas Morgul and Orthanc... and I have nothing to add Brimvalir. __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

03-19-2002, 06:09 PM	#23
Durin Sapling Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 14	I'm pretty sure it's Orthanc and Minas Morgul.

03-21-2002, 02:22 PM	#27
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	Minas Morgul and Orthanc? Really? Drat, I was always convinced it was Orthanc and Minas Tirith! Well, I thought there's all the action... Guess not then... __________________ We are not things.

03-21-2002, 02:34 PM	#28
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	I also thought it was the tower at Cirith Ungol and Orthanc. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

03-21-2002, 03:04 PM	#29
Pailan Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: aisle 12, seat#2 Posts: 449	I have always thought it was Orthanc and Barad-dur. The two principle locations of the forces trying to obtain the ring. But what the heck, there are enough towers to pick your own set and be right enough. __________________ "Holy Entmoot, Batman!" "Who knows, Robin? This strange mixing of minds may be the greatest single sevice ever performed for humanity! Let's go, but, inconspicuosly, through the window. We'll use our Batropes. Our job is finished." Oh, btw, Frodo lives.

03-21-2002, 05:55 PM	#30
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Tolkien probably changed his focus while writing the book: but he explicitly said that it referred to both Orthanc, and Minas Morgul. This makes much more sense, because TT shifts focus alternately from Saruman, to Sauron. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

03-21-2002, 06:14 PM	#31
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	The Golden Hall isn't a tower Brimvalir. As I said above the only towers seen in The Two Towers are the tower in the Burg of the Hornburg, Orthanc, the Towers of the Teeth, Minas Morgul and (very briefly) the Tower of Cirith Ungol. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

05-22-2002, 12:15 AM	#32
Christiana Elf Lord Join Date: May 2002 Location: Searching desperately for a swan boat to take to Valinor Posts: 1,231	Orthanc&MMorgul l MT&MM 16 l 6 l So there!

05-22-2002, 02:02 PM	#33
Snowdog Dúnedain Ranger of the North Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: The Ruins of Arnor Posts: 892	My opinion and what I always thought since the first time I read the books was the Two Towers of Barad-Dur & Orthanc. Of course the defining battle with Sarumann happens and the Ents trash the place except Orthanc, and Strider battles Sauron via the Palantir, which is a defining moment that turns the coming battle and in my opinion changes Strider to Aragorn. __________________ "I am an outlaw, I was born an outlaw's son. The highway is my legacy, on the highway I will run."

05-22-2002, 07:28 PM	#34
Christiana Elf Lord Join Date: May 2002 Location: Searching desperately for a swan boat to take to Valinor Posts: 1,231	Aragorn looks into the Pal. in ROTK

05-22-2002, 08:39 PM	#35
cassiopeia Viggoholic Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 1,749	In the letters Tolkien is undecided, so there is no right or wrong answer, in my opinion. If I were to guess, I would say Orthanc and Barad-Dur because Saruman and Sauron are the enemy: everything depends in some way on them. Plus the book (LOTR) was named after the enemy, so there is no reason why books 3 and 4 not refer to evil places. __________________ Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.

05-23-2002, 11:49 AM	#36
Snowdog Dúnedain Ranger of the North Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: The Ruins of Arnor Posts: 892	Well, in the 8 readings I have done of the Lord Of The Rings since 1976, it all flows together with me as one big book, so go ahead and roll your eyes. Guess I should read it again and note where the 'Book1, Book2, etc. pages are this time. __________________ "I am an outlaw, I was born an outlaw's son. The highway is my legacy, on the highway I will run."

05-25-2002, 01:14 AM	#37
Nienna Grey Enting Join Date: May 2002 Location: England Posts: 62	My understanding is that the two towers in question are Orthanc and Minus Morgul. I think the TT movie trailer refers to them as being Orthanc and Barad-dur though but that's just for the purposes of the movie. __________________ "Mornie Utúlië Believe and you will find your way"

05-28-2002, 03:31 PM	#38
Samwise Gamgee Hobbit Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 17	Fraid I hav 2 disagree, Grey. I don't think it is just for the purposes of the film. From the good guys point of view in the book there are two towers to fear ultimately, Orthanc & Barad-Dur. I no Sam&Frodo are scared silly when they see the Nazgul leaving MMorgul, but ultimately the real tower to fear is Barad Dur. Furthermore, these two make an alliance (fragile, given, but nonetheless an alliance), forming 'Two Towers' to be feared by the good guys. The reason I refer so often (well-twice) to the good guys is that it is always from their viewpoint we get the narrative, so it is fair to assume that the titles should come from their view. Also, sum1 sed B-D & Orthanc cuz of the pal, well Denethor had 1 too, so that seems illogical. ________ property Pattaya Last edited by Samwise Gamgee : 09-20-2011 at 02:47 AM.

05-28-2002, 03:59 PM	#39
Snowdog Dúnedain Ranger of the North Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: The Ruins of Arnor Posts: 892	Most definitly not 'just' for the film. Like I said, my mind interpreted it as Barad Dur and Orthanc when I first read it in 1976.... WAY before even the cartoons and the release of the Silmarillion (not that those things have ant bearing on the discussion). My images will always be supreme and the movie just someone elses vision and adaptation of the Books. __________________ "I am an outlaw, I was born an outlaw's son. The highway is my legacy, on the highway I will run."

05-28-2002, 05:43 PM	#40
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Lucky! I've been reading 'em for 8 years or so, but my imagination is not that great when it comes to visualising characters and places, so I'll probably be doomed to a lifetime of imagining Orlando Bloom nancing around as Legolas. Ergh. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

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