Old Elves

[Kirinki54]

Originally posted by Inoldonil
Glorfindel of Imladris was indeed Glorfindel of Gondolin. This can be found in Peoples of Middle-earth; Late Writings; Last Writings; Glorfindel.

It says in the Sil that Glorfindel was the chief of the House of the Golden Flower of Gondolin. Is it said anything else somewhere about this house?

[Michael Martinez]

Originally posted by Kirinki54


It says in the Sil that Glorfindel was the chief of the House of the Golden Flower of Gondolin. Is it said anything else somewhere about this house?

Some people would point you to The Book of Lost Tales, in which you can read the very early story "The Fall of Gondolin". There is some information there about the various "houses" of Gondolin. However, although Christopher Tolkien used "The Fall of Gondolin" as a source for what he published in The Silmarillion, the final form of the story is only an approximation in plot and detail of what his father might finally have achieved.

You cannot simply go mining the early volumes of The History of Middle-earth to see the larger picture of Middle-earth. In this case, the society of Gondolin as depicted in "The Fall of Gondolin" was very different from what would have been depicted had Tolkien finished "Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin". There would have been numerous identifiable parallels, similarities, and related items. But there would have been numerous differences, too.

"Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin" was published in Unfinished Tales, and it provided Christopher with some source material. But this fragment ends as Tuor passes through the final gate and looks out upon the valley of Tumladen and beholds Gondolin for the first time. And we have no idea of what changes JRRT might have introduced had he finished the story and begun editing/revising it.

So, to answer your question more directly, there is a little more information about the House of the Golden Flower in "The Fall of Gondolin", but it is not very useful for filling out the picture of First Age Beleriand as presented in The Silmarillion. The same stories were retold over and over again, introducing new characters, dropping old characters, altering details of action, dialogue, and plot. They are recognizably the "same" stories, but they are not interchangeable with one another.

Many incompatibilities exist between periods of development of the Middle-earth stories. What you get in The Silmarillion must stand alone, because Christopher had to ensure that it achieved a sense of completion to the cycle begun with the second edition of The Hobbit.

[Kirinki54]

Originally posted by Michael Martinez


Some people would point you to The Book of Lost Tales, in which you can read the very early story "The Fall of Gondolin". There is some information there about the various "houses" of Gondolin.

Thanks for that, Michael. I have a lot of texts to read still, and it will be nice to do it! But I realise the nature of the HoME books.

What interested me was partly Glorfindel´s House as mentioned and his heritage, but partly also that IIRC no other Elven house is named in that fashion neither in the Sil nor LoTR. They are named after forefathers. I guess in your reference it is different.

[Michael Martinez]

The Gondolin houses, in "The Fall of Gondolin", were named for things other than their forefathers. That is one of the differences between the Gnomish society of BOLT and the Eldar of THE SILMARILLION.