02-12-2007, 10:14 AM | #21 | ||||
Elven Warrior
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02-12-2007, 11:03 AM | #22 |
Sapling
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seems to me that galadriel was deluded into thinking that she would become a great queen and ruler with the ring. this would be consistent with the how the ring affected many others. sam envisioned himself as samwise the great etc. galadriel was simply a noldor. certainly she was immensely powerful, but she would have had no more control over the ring than any other in the end. it makes sense that frodo would feel like he could entrust it to her, and i think at the time, he seems like he would have been willing to forsake his quest had she been willing to receive the ring. other evidence of galadriel's potential inability to keep the ring without becoming simply a pawn of sauron would be saruman's response to sauron. saruman was a maia, and presumably much closer in power to sauron than any other in middle earth at the time, yet he was enthralled by sauron in a sense, at a time when sauron didn't even have the ring. how much less powerful was galadriel?
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02-12-2007, 04:35 PM | #23 | |||
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02-12-2007, 04:49 PM | #24 | |
Sapling
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of course, i also considered that a very 'good' being, such as galadriel, might be quicker to trust in her power and 'goodness' too much, and possibly be more inclined to wield the ring in an effort to do 'good', which she alludes to anyway when talking to frodo. |
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02-12-2007, 05:00 PM | #25 | ||
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02-12-2007, 07:04 PM | #26 | |
Sapling
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interesting point about saruman as well. it's a wonder, assuming that the valar who 'lobbied' for his being a representative sensed this, allowed him to go. and if they knew olorin was especially wise, and was favored, why not make him the chief of the istari? |
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02-12-2007, 07:27 PM | #27 |
Elf Lord
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Welcome, carlrodd - you bring up many interesting points, both by the wayside or as the crow flies - either way ...
I look forward to debating with you. best, BB |
02-12-2007, 07:59 PM | #28 | ||
Elven Warrior
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It doesn't look like the valar were keen on using veto powers against someone proposed by one of them - after all, there does seem to be a bit of a shortage of volunteers, seeing that Manwe almost begged Gandalf to go. Then again, Tolkien points in the letters that even the valar are tainted, at least as much as to make errors. So even if they perceived his evil, it must have been at that time only buddying, so they must have considered it as coming with the territory of being in Arda - and therefore of an acceptable risk. Edit: Quote:
Last edited by Landroval : 02-12-2007 at 08:05 PM. |
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02-12-2007, 08:50 PM | #29 | |
Sapling
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to keep this somewhat on topic, sauron and his ring......... the valar were not permitted to bring force against the children of iluvatar, hence them deferring to eru when ar-pharazon brought his fleet to valinor. they also allowed the missteps of the noldor to run their course, and did not intervene with morgoth until the noldor were thoroughly defeated. however, by the time sauron had established himself in as the 'lord' of middle earth, there would seem to have been no reason for them not to come and reign in one of their own. arda was their creation...why allow sauron to cause so much grief? and why send maiar that could not, and were not intended to contest his power? why not send tulkas and orome to smack him around and bring him back in chains? he certainly was no morgoth....they probably wouldn't have broken a sweat. |
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02-13-2007, 01:19 AM | #30 | ||
Elf Lord
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If you implying that the Ring had a pull on Galadriel, then I even can't imagine of such enormous pull on the more powerful entity as Gandalf with his Ring. So, according to you words, he knew in what kind of way this artifact is affecting you, and when he felt the pull, he recognized the Ring instantly and jumped away from it as a nun from a "Playboy". He knew right away that the Ring will bond with the keeper, and Elrond knew too. This is why they made a theater of two actors: "On him alone is any charge laid." Indeed... Quote:
She HAS BEEN the worst Enemy of Creation. She wanted to rule the world and in the same time to embalm it, to stop the time, to stop a progress. She wanted to go against the design of the Creator. In a way she was worst than Sauron, because he was promoting a technology and the building of cities. Maybe, the whole his idea of making the Ring of Power was to put some restrains on the overzealous preservers of the Old World, and in this way to shield Middle-earth from another "Numenor". Seems, Ery did not mind his intervention, did not send Tulcas or the eagles of Manve on his head. But this is OFF TOP. In this thread we are talking about Frodo. P.S.Tolkien introduced the christian connection much later, when Tolkien the Writer under a Divination sease to exist and Tolkien the Promoter of his Book has surfaced instead..
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02-13-2007, 09:36 AM | #31 | ||||||||||||
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If you implying that the Ring had a pull on Galadriel, then I even can't imagine of such enormous pull on the more powerful entity as Gandalf with his Ring. The fact that Gandalf felt no powerful drive towards Bilbo's ring throughout all those years only adds to my presupposition (I myself am not yet completely convinced by it) that the ring will avoid those whom it can hardly leave (or worst, who could master it, even in the presence of Sauron, as Gandalf may). Gandalf refused the ring only when he knew what it was; he based his final acceptance on "scientific" grounds (testing the ring with fire) not his impressions of it. Generally speaking, a hobbit was the most resilient ringbearer possible, and this Gandalf knew; he also knew Frodo and his allegiance to good. I don't think that at that time there was anyone else who could have taken the ring. Perhaps Gandalf felt, just like Tolkien, that Frodo had the necessary amount of inner power (not too much, not too little) to carry the ring, at least to Imladris. We should also take into account that Gandalf may have his bits of foreknowledge, and that may include Frodo, seeing how he talks of destiny. Quote:
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Last edited by Landroval : 02-13-2007 at 09:37 AM. |
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02-13-2007, 06:24 PM | #32 |
Elven Warrior
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No one's perfect (I mean this quite seriously in the context of this thread).
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