4th Age and beyond - Page 2

Jon S. · 05-04-2007, 12:42 PM

Never argue evolution with people, it simply wastes your time and theirs. That being said, a brief lesson in the scientific method and how it differs from religion appears warranted for some of us.

Keith K · 05-30-2007, 11:48 PM

I dunno if this is the Seventh Age or not, but all these ages must be connected.

That would explain the Shadow spreading from Washington.

Ingwe · 09-26-2007, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith K

I dunno if this is the Seventh Age or not, but all these ages must be connected.

That would explain the Shadow spreading from Washington.

I think Keith here has a pretty good point.

I don't know if it's appropriate to be resurrecting this thread; however, I think it was a topic that was interesting to read (which basically describes most of the threads here, except the "free eddie" or whatever those threads were called in Star Wars).

I don't know if we could label the ages with numbers anymore. Basically how you had Rocky, then Rocky II, Rocky III, Rocky IV, Rocky V, and THEN, Rocky Balboa - which of course the sequel to that one will be Rocky Balboa with his birthdate for the title.

The point being, whether this is the fifth or sixth or seventh age, we could at the time call it the Age of Industrialization, the sub-age or whatever would be called the Space Age, Nuclear (or Nucular as "Dubbya" would call it) Age, or the Driving while using cell phone sub-age. Whatever age number it is, we may have just ditched the age numbers instead for titles for the ages. The Ancient Greeks, Egyptians, Romans, etc, all had their own different ages and calendars along with the Mayans, Incas, etc.

Life in the Fourth Age seems to have no doubt created a wide barrier between many civilizations and tribes, to the point that they all began to measure the passage of time differently.

To me it seems like about 27,000 years has passed since Cuiviénen, and by reckoning of a normal "3,000-year-age" that would be 9 ages. Of course, from where Valinor's standing, it's just the Fourth Age (End of the Trees was like the end of our First Age, the separation of Aman from the literal circles of the current 'world' was the end of the Second, and the arrival of the last ship was the end of our Third, so it was basically like that of Middle Earth except different events marked it). The Fourth Age for us consisted of hanging out and smoking pipe weed from this place that these peculiarly short fellows call "South Farthing".

Heavens thank those little Hobbits, particularly the gardener.

All joking aside (for the most part), I think that the next age should be the Age of Metric System Acceptance for the United States. If someone asks me how tall I am, the only honest answer I can give now is 1.86 meters +/- 1 cm (0.01 m).

Also, alhaQQ, interesting historical comparison. I like it!

Nautipus · 09-26-2007, 07:33 PM

I think it's the TV's Gone Down the Drain Age...

Ingwe · 09-26-2007, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nautipus

I think it's the TV's Gone Down the Drain Age...

It must explain why I don't watch it anymore. The Simpsons were cool at first and now it's just, eh. Star Trek: Enterprise was a good Trek series that they ended that to me had some originality to it, and Paramount decided to cut it before its time was through (that's just my opinion of Enterprise). And then there's all of the reality TV programs that "attempt" to be original. There's absolutely no originality that remains in TV programming these days.

I swear this is the average corporate response to an original idea:
Boss: "Creative thinking alert! Scrap it, for the love of God, scrap it!!!"

Nautipus · 09-26-2007, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ingwe

It must explain why I don't watch it anymore. The Simpsons were cool at first and now it's just, eh. Star Trek: Enterprise was a good Trek series that they ended that to me had some originality to it, and Paramount decided to cut it before its time was through (that's just my opinion of Enterprise). And then there's all of the reality TV programs that "attempt" to be original. There's absolutely no originality that remains in TV programming these days.

I swear this is the average corporate response to an original idea:
Boss: "Creative thinking alert! Scrap it, for the love of God, scrap it!!!"

Jeez, I know! The world is trying to become more friendly at the expense of originality, so that no one will be offended.

And those reality TV shows...! My dad watches them and it kills me. Nothing on TV can substitute a good book, other than maybe Blue Planet....

Ingwe · 09-26-2007, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nautipus

Jeez, I know! The world is trying to become more friendly at the expense of originality, so that no one will be offended.

And those reality TV shows...! My dad watches them and it kills me. Nothing on TV can substitute a good book, other than maybe Blue Planet....

My cousin constantly asks me "have you seen this show *insert name of some reality TV show that I -conveniently- forgot the name to" and I always say "hmm, I never got around to seeing that one, but I might someday". Of course that's just the half of the sentence that I say. The other half would be..."but probably not."

Nautipus · 09-26-2007, 07:51 PM

I have three little sisters and they're exactly the same...except they ask me about Dora the Explorer and all those other cartoons, and I have to bend down, look'em in the eye and say: "Not a chance."

Ingwe · 11-01-2007, 04:39 AM

I just had a thought about the "Flat World" thing with Arda history. Much of the history of Arda back then was much the same as the thinking people had in the Middle Ages. The finding that Earth is spherical is a relatively new find (though it happened a few hundred or so years ago). So both Elves and Men back in the time when Elves were a common find in present-day Eurasia (Middle Earth) were taught about a flat Earth, and after the earth was 'made' round eventhough it was already, it was taught that the earth was once flat but wasn't anymore.

Even the beliefs of the Elves back then were not altogether accurate. I'm sure if you were to ask some of them, particularly Galadriel, Elrond, or the even higher Elves (Elwe earlier on when he was still alive, and Ingwe, and actually Cirdan who was one of the originals), some of them may have an opinion that contradicts written history in those times.

Saruman was an avid "astronomer" in those times, though there were no telescopes - a wizard of the Maia is unlikely to require the use of a telescope. Humans can see down to 7th magnitude (the higher the number for magnitude, the darker or...less bright the object) whilst Elves I imagine could see magnitude 9 or 10. A wizard of the Maia may have sight that's clearer even than that, but when you get down to 12th or 13th magnitude, one would require a telescope. I'd imagine the visual acuity of the Elves to be around 20/10 while the wizards (eventhough they appear old in their form) would probably have 20/5 or better. Some humans even have that level of visual acuity (though not many). I've heard of only one human so far who could see 9th magnitude objects.

Anyway, away from the astronomical magnitude scale; I'd think that Saruman's observations, which he made often, and if they would have been included in some book in Tolkien's world (which would be perhaps silly to include as Tolkien isn't about teaching science and astronomy, it's about the story and history, and excellent superior plot dynamics and foreshadowing, everything a good story has), then we might find that Saruman may have himself discovered Earth's actual nature.

Saruman did journey into the east with the Blue Wizards, probably pretty far I'd say, maybe the whole way past Rhun to the eastern sea - no one knows this for sure. I'd like to ask Galadriel but currently Valinor is a bit off-limits to anyone living here right now. They may have even sailed the seas and found the New Land, which would be synonymous with the Americas.

One thing's for sure, the Numenorians traveled far into the east, and witnessed the lands of the rising sun - some assume those lands to literally be the unknown New Lands. Some assume those lands to be Australia and in the meantime, some assume that Morenore (the south-eastern continent that eventually either became Antarctica or split apart and became Antarctica and Australia) is actually that land.

If anyone knew for certain, it would be one or more of the following four:
- Easterlings
- Those who remained in Hildorien over the ages that it changed (if any remained, it is possible)
- The White and Blue Wizards
- The Numenorian sailors who went there

If I lived in Middle Earth at that time, I would have sailed around a lot just to find out what's out there, despite the possible dangers.

On old maps we know one thing, near the edge of the 'flat earth' in the ocean, it used to say "here be monsters", quite similar to how on some maps of Middle Earth, part of the Iron Mountains that remains (albeit a very small part connected to the Iron Hills) had the phrase "here be dragons". I found that rather humorous.

The writings in the History of Middle Earth, along with those in the stories of the Silmarillion and Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit, etc, are meant to inspire mystery.

The very reason we search for some relation to our current Earth is a testament to the mystery in Tolkien's works. Everything from Tom Bombadil to his control over the barrow-wights to the shape of the Earth then, coupled with the curiosity we have regarding that world and the one that exists now, is the summation of that testament. It invokes inspiration as well, as far as the characters go. I've seen topics posted online before about if there were any common names used back then like there are now, such as John, Joshua, Amy, Robert, Alexander, Amanda, etc. Sam (Samwise Gamgee) and Bill (the Pony) were a couple of the names that come closest to the names we have now.

For people to want to dig down so deep into the various details, some of which are sometimes not all that prolific but still offer some additional clues to society then, is part of the legacy of Tolkien.

Tolkien's work is essentially an everlasting and immortal monument for his life. I don't imagine that time will wear that legacy away. 10 ages from now there will be at least several thousand people who will have memory of it, as long as history in all of its forms isn't wiped out in some global civil war or something like that (leave it to humanity to eventually destroy itself somehow).

09-26-2007, 07:33 PM	#24
Nautipus Kraken King Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Under the sea Posts: 2,714	I think it's the TV's Gone Down the Drain Age... __________________ Being the King of these Beings, This is my Child One of my top ten favorite movies. "You ever try to flick a fly? "No." "It's a waste of time." "Can you see it?" "No." "It's right there!" "Where? "There!" "What is it?" "A crab." "A crab? I dont see any crab." "How?! It's right there!!" "Where?" "There!!!!" "Oh." -Excerpts from A Tale of Two Morons One of the best Global Warming Messages out there

09-26-2007, 07:51 PM	#28
Nautipus Kraken King Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Under the sea Posts: 2,714	I have three little sisters and they're exactly the same...except they ask me about Dora the Explorer and all those other cartoons, and I have to bend down, look'em in the eye and say: "Not a chance." __________________ Being the King of these Beings, This is my Child One of my top ten favorite movies. "You ever try to flick a fly? "No." "It's a waste of time." "Can you see it?" "No." "It's right there!" "Where? "There!" "What is it?" "A crab." "A crab? I dont see any crab." "How?! It's right there!!" "Where?" "There!!!!" "Oh." -Excerpts from A Tale of Two Morons One of the best Global Warming Messages out there

05-04-2007, 12:42 PM	#21
Jon S. Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 455	Never argue evolution with people, it simply wastes your time and theirs. That being said, a brief lesson in the scientific method and how it differs from religion appears warranted for some of us.

05-30-2007, 11:48 PM	#22
Keith K Elf Lord Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: charlotte, n.c. Posts: 1,081	I dunno if this is the Seventh Age or not, but all these ages must be connected. That would explain the Shadow spreading from Washington.

11-01-2007, 04:39 AM	#29
Ingwe Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Somewhere not of this world Posts: 402	I just had a thought about the "Flat World" thing with Arda history. Much of the history of Arda back then was much the same as the thinking people had in the Middle Ages. The finding that Earth is spherical is a relatively new find (though it happened a few hundred or so years ago). So both Elves and Men back in the time when Elves were a common find in present-day Eurasia (Middle Earth) were taught about a flat Earth, and after the earth was 'made' round eventhough it was already, it was taught that the earth was once flat but wasn't anymore. Even the beliefs of the Elves back then were not altogether accurate. I'm sure if you were to ask some of them, particularly Galadriel, Elrond, or the even higher Elves (Elwe earlier on when he was still alive, and Ingwe, and actually Cirdan who was one of the originals), some of them may have an opinion that contradicts written history in those times. Saruman was an avid "astronomer" in those times, though there were no telescopes - a wizard of the Maia is unlikely to require the use of a telescope. Humans can see down to 7th magnitude (the higher the number for magnitude, the darker or...less bright the object) whilst Elves I imagine could see magnitude 9 or 10. A wizard of the Maia may have sight that's clearer even than that, but when you get down to 12th or 13th magnitude, one would require a telescope. I'd imagine the visual acuity of the Elves to be around 20/10 while the wizards (eventhough they appear old in their form) would probably have 20/5 or better. Some humans even have that level of visual acuity (though not many). I've heard of only one human so far who could see 9th magnitude objects. Anyway, away from the astronomical magnitude scale; I'd think that Saruman's observations, which he made often, and if they would have been included in some book in Tolkien's world (which would be perhaps silly to include as Tolkien isn't about teaching science and astronomy, it's about the story and history, and excellent superior plot dynamics and foreshadowing, everything a good story has), then we might find that Saruman may have himself discovered Earth's actual nature. Saruman did journey into the east with the Blue Wizards, probably pretty far I'd say, maybe the whole way past Rhun to the eastern sea - no one knows this for sure. I'd like to ask Galadriel but currently Valinor is a bit off-limits to anyone living here right now. They may have even sailed the seas and found the New Land, which would be synonymous with the Americas. One thing's for sure, the Numenorians traveled far into the east, and witnessed the lands of the rising sun - some assume those lands to literally be the unknown New Lands. Some assume those lands to be Australia and in the meantime, some assume that Morenore (the south-eastern continent that eventually either became Antarctica or split apart and became Antarctica and Australia) is actually that land. If anyone knew for certain, it would be one or more of the following four: - Easterlings - Those who remained in Hildorien over the ages that it changed (if any remained, it is possible) - The White and Blue Wizards - The Numenorian sailors who went there If I lived in Middle Earth at that time, I would have sailed around a lot just to find out what's out there, despite the possible dangers. On old maps we know one thing, near the edge of the 'flat earth' in the ocean, it used to say "here be monsters", quite similar to how on some maps of Middle Earth, part of the Iron Mountains that remains (albeit a very small part connected to the Iron Hills) had the phrase "here be dragons". I found that rather humorous. The writings in the History of Middle Earth, along with those in the stories of the Silmarillion and Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit, etc, are meant to inspire mystery. The very reason we search for some relation to our current Earth is a testament to the mystery in Tolkien's works. Everything from Tom Bombadil to his control over the barrow-wights to the shape of the Earth then, coupled with the curiosity we have regarding that world and the one that exists now, is the summation of that testament. It invokes inspiration as well, as far as the characters go. I've seen topics posted online before about if there were any common names used back then like there are now, such as John, Joshua, Amy, Robert, Alexander, Amanda, etc. Sam (Samwise Gamgee) and Bill (the Pony) were a couple of the names that come closest to the names we have now. For people to want to dig down so deep into the various details, some of which are sometimes not all that prolific but still offer some additional clues to society then, is part of the legacy of Tolkien. Tolkien's work is essentially an everlasting and immortal monument for his life. I don't imagine that time will wear that legacy away. 10 ages from now there will be at least several thousand people who will have memory of it, as long as history in all of its forms isn't wiped out in some global civil war or something like that (leave it to humanity to eventually destroy itself somehow).