Who has the control: Sauron or the Ring?

[Attalus]

I agree with SGH and Val that the Ring would have corrupted even a "good" Sauron. Do we not have Gandalf's and Elrond's word that is "altogether evil?" If Gandalf feared to wield it, why would even a 'good' Sauron? Besides, I do not think Galadriel and Elrond would have allowed it, as it controlled their Rings. Who could you trust that far? Certainly not Sauron.

[Pytt]

but since Sauron created it, couldn't he possibly be lifted over the corruption? I know Gandalf couldn't, but his presence was not so strong as Sauron's in middle earth, I think. so couldn't Sauron have risen over the corruption, and that way he did not would have been corrupted?

and to the one asking quoesstion about what to do about it, if the ring had turned good. they could have used it in the same way as the three, and with greater power I think.

[Beor]

Sauron already had his chance not to be corrupted, and he done got corrupted. Plus, you realise that he put much of himself into that ring when he made it, hence when the ring was destroyed so was he. Would it make sense for him to change suddenly for good if the ring decided to be good? Because it seems to me that there is more Sauron in the ring than in Sauron. The only way he could really overcome the ring is to destroy it, and in doing so, destroy himself.

And Val, I believe the Ringwraiths would remain black and horrible, but go on to teach kindergarten or take lead roles in hilarious sitcoms. "Everybody Loves Ringwraith"

[Manveru]

if sauron became good and the ring was found what would they do with the ring? if they destroyed it sauron would be destroyed and if they kept it it would corrupt anyone who held onto it, and sauron would prolly be addicted to it like cigarettes, and would need to go through some serious rehab b4 he could be rid of his need for it.

[Artanis]

It seems to me that Sauron gave away control over his own will when he created the Ring. He dispersed himself by putting much if his malice, power and will into the Ring. I agree with those here who say that he could not have the Ring and at the same time be good. It is contradictory, even if Sauron decided to repent of his earlier misdeeds and lead a good life thereafter, the Ring would still be evil. As I see it, and here I agree with Beor, the only way Sauron could completely redeem himself was to destroy the Ring, which meant his own destruction as well.

It is a parallell to what happened to Morgoth when he let himself be dispersed into the substance of the Earth. The evil component in Arda exist regardless of what happens to Morgoth. The only way to completely conquer his evil is to destroy the Earth, and that will not happen until the end of days.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Originally Posted by Sister Golden Hair

Yes, the Ring was an extension of Sauron, which makes it unlikely that he could ever be 100% good.

Or any good for that matter. Like I said the Ring was no longer a part of Sauron so it wouldn't change with him.

[Pytt]

Ok, you guys have convinced me. If Sauron had got the ring, when he had turned good, it wouldhave corrupted him, again, and made him evil.
and as I think abour it, even if Sauron had been strong enough to get clear of the corruption in the ring, that would have been before he turned evil in the first time. and like someone mentioned, the ring contained mor of Sauron, than Sauron himself.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

I wouldn't say more but the bit of him that was in there, was no longer him.

[The Wizard from Milan]

This thread made me think about a related question: could Sauron have unmade the ring (in a different way from casting it into Mount Doom) and sucked back the power into himself?

[Maerbenn]

Originally Posted by The Wizard from Milan

could Sauron have unmade the ring (in a different way from casting it into Mount Doom) and sucked back the power into himself?

Tolkien says in Letters no. 131 that “the Ring was unbreakable by any smithcraft less than his [Sauron’s] own.�

So I think Sauron could have broken it, but I’m not sure about sucking the power back in.

[Elemmírë]

Interesting question...

I could probably go either way on it. It's likely, I think, that having spent so much power on it, he would have been unable to unmake it.

[edited] meh. Ignore me.

Anyone think Fëanor could have destroyed it?

[Maerbenn]

Originally Posted by ElemmÃ*rë

Anyone think Fëanor could have destroyed it?

Gandalf says in ‘The PalantÃ*r’ that the Orthanc-stone is beyond Saruman’s art, and beyond Sauron’s too.

So if Fëanor wrought the palantÃ*ri, I think you could interpret this to mean that Fëanor’s smithcraft was greater than Sauron’s. That in turn would mean that Fëanor could have destroyed the One Ring.

Of course, it could also mean that Fëanor was just more specialized in making seeing-stones than Saruman and Sauron.

[Nurvingiel]

Aha, but some good did come of the Ring. If it weren't for the Ring, Bilbo and the Dwarves never would have succeeded in their Quest, which resulted in the world being rid of Smaug (an evil being by nature and deed), the restoration of an important part of Dwarven civilization, and dealing a serious blow to the activities of the Orcs (who are also evil by nature and deed). It just wouldn't have gone down like that if it weren't for the Ring.

However, Bilbo remained admirably uncorrupted. If he had known what the Ring really was, or had he been more powerful in himself (like Gandalf or an Elf Lord), he might have become corrupted himself. He was still corrupted a bit, despite his good heart.

"Power corrupts, but absolute power corrupts absolutely." - Lord Acton

Bilbo did not have absolute power to weild the Ring to anything even near its full potential, so he could not become absolutely corrupted by it. Sauron, of course would.

Even in the unlikely event of Sauron reforming, the Ring would still corrupt him. I think it would corrupt anyone (except Eru, or Tom Bombadil) who could weild it to its full power. It would be worse for Sauron because for him it would be like a recovered alcoholic having a drink.

I don't think Fëanor would have destroyed it, he would have tried to take it apart to see how it worked.

[Attalus]

Lord Acton did not mean that power corrupts everybody that has it, but that it had the potential to corrupt susceptible individuals, and that absolute power had the potential to corrupt absolutely those same individuals. I think we can safely classify Sauron as a suceptible individual, so that he should never even have been shown the Ring again, like an alcoholic should not be given a drink. I don't think one can consider Gil-Galad or George Washington, among many more, to be corrupt, but consider Nero and Caligula.

[Nurvingiel]

Thanks Attalus. That's a very good point.

Do you think, then, that if Gil-Galad and Isildur's places had changed, Gil-Galad would have destroyed the Ring? I think this is very likely.

[Attalus]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Thanks Attalus. That's a very good point.

Do you think, then, that if Gil-Galad and Isildur's places had changed, Gil-Galad would have destroyed the Ring? I think this is very likely.

I definitely think Gil-Galad would have destroyed the Ring, since he had knowledge and insight that Isildur lacked, having been a Ring-Bearer and having known others. I think he would have been careful not to touch it, possibly picking it up on Aiglos' tip or the tip-shard, (since that was a sacred weapon, I take it) shielded his thoughts from it as best he could, and thrown it into the fire.

[me9996]

Originally Posted by ElemmÃ*rë

Oh, dear. How embarrassing. This is actually my brother Sirion's post:

Theoretically, if Sauron had reformed his ways before Lord of the Rings and became good, he probably would have gotten his ring back. The question is, if he did get the ring back, would it have corrupted him again, or would he have been able to truly use it for good?

He would use it for good or he wouldn't use it at all.

[Olmer]

Originally Posted by Sister Golden Hair

The Ring was created by evil with only an evil purpose.

On contrary, I think that Sauron made the Ring not to achieve the dominance by overpowering (he was quite powerful already), but by stripping the power of all, who opposed him, feeding himself with this power and life - force, thus gaining abilities to "materialise" from a spirit form and getting an "eyesight" to see plans and notions of the others in more clear perspective.
No more evil purpose , than Galadriel's (for example) wishes to became more powerful than elves in Aman.

In this light I see the Ring as some kind of symbiotic generator-transmitter which feeding the life-force of carrier to the one-and-only receiving point - the Dark Tower.
With melting in the fire the Ring-Generator got short-circuited - transformers blew up - stored energy (life-force) disappeared, what had been feed with it(Sauron) became powerless, but not completely gone.

[Gordis]

I think the main power of the One ring was to control the other rings, to see and direct the minds and deeds of the other ringbearers. Other powers of the Ring (invisibility, intimidating weaker creatures, attracting followers etc.) were not that important.

With the One on his finger Sauron was able to make all the other rings (which didn't contain his power) work for him. He had to put a part of his own power into the Ring but acquired the power of the 19. So after the forging of the One, Sauron's combined power has increased greatly.
At least that was his plan, which has worked partially (with the 9). The 7 proved to be rather useless (he would have been wiser to give them to the Men as well) and the 3 the Elves hid. But though Sauron has not got the power of the 3, at least he has prevented Elves from using their rings during all the rest of the II Age.

Why any good person wielding the Ring turns to evil? IMHO wielding the ring means first of all controlling the other rings through their ringbearers, manipulating their minds and bending their wills, which is a great evil in itself. And then, of course, the new Ringlord becomes one with his ring and assimilates the part of bad Sauron's fea it contains...

[me9996]

You know, if souron was good it would take more than the one ring to change that... And souron does concrole the ring... You've got my opinion...