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#21 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: On the Bay of Belfalas
Posts: 1,125
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I agree with SGH and Val that the Ring would have corrupted even a "good" Sauron. Do we not have Gandalf's and Elrond's word that is "altogether evil?" If Gandalf feared to wield it, why would even a 'good' Sauron? Besides, I do not think Galadriel and Elrond would have allowed it, as it controlled their Rings. Who could you trust that far? Certainly not Sauron.
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
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#22 |
The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: trondheim, norway
Posts: 1,388
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but since Sauron created it, couldn't he possibly be lifted over the corruption? I know Gandalf couldn't, but his presence was not so strong as Sauron's in middle earth, I think. so couldn't Sauron have risen over the corruption, and that way he did not would have been corrupted?
and to the one asking quoesstion about what to do about it, if the ring had turned good. they could have used it in the same way as the three, and with greater power I think.
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#23 |
founder of the color blue
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: E-Space
Posts: 1,727
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Sauron already had his chance not to be corrupted, and he done got corrupted. Plus, you realise that he put much of himself into that ring when he made it, hence when the ring was destroyed so was he. Would it make sense for him to change suddenly for good if the ring decided to be good? Because it seems to me that there is more Sauron in the ring than in Sauron. The only way he could really overcome the ring is to destroy it, and in doing so, destroy himself.
And Val, I believe the Ringwraiths would remain black and horrible, but go on to teach kindergarten or take lead roles in hilarious sitcoms. "Everybody Loves Ringwraith"
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#24 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 256
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if sauron became good and the ring was found what would they do with the ring? if they destroyed it sauron would be destroyed and if they kept it it would corrupt anyone who held onto it, and sauron would prolly be addicted to it like cigarettes, and would need to go through some serious rehab b4 he could be rid of his need for it.
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Earendel arose where the shadow flows At Ocean's silent brim; Through the mouth of night as a ray of light Where the shores are sheer and dim He launched his bark like a silver spark From the last and lonely sand; Then on sunlit breath of day's fiery death He sailed from Westerland |
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#25 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7
Posts: 4,285
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It seems to me that Sauron gave away control over his own will when he created the Ring. He dispersed himself by putting much if his malice, power and will into the Ring. I agree with those here who say that he could not have the Ring and at the same time be good. It is contradictory, even if Sauron decided to repent of his earlier misdeeds and lead a good life thereafter, the Ring would still be evil. As I see it, and here I agree with Beor, the only way Sauron could completely redeem himself was to destroy the Ring, which meant his own destruction as well.
It is a parallell to what happened to Morgoth when he let himself be dispersed into the substance of the Earth. The evil component in Arda exist regardless of what happens to Morgoth. The only way to completely conquer his evil is to destroy the Earth, and that will not happen until the end of days.
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#26 | |
Warrior of the House of Hador
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,651
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Quote:
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 Last edited by Telcontar_Dunedain : 12-22-2004 at 05:35 AM. |
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#27 |
The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: trondheim, norway
Posts: 1,388
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Ok, you guys have convinced me. If Sauron had got the ring, when he had turned good, it wouldhave corrupted him, again, and made him evil.
and as I think abour it, even if Sauron had been strong enough to get clear of the corruption in the ring, that would have been before he turned evil in the first time. and like someone mentioned, the ring contained mor of Sauron, than Sauron himself.
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#28 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,651
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I wouldn't say more but the bit of him that was in there, was no longer him.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
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#29 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 421
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This thread made me think about a related question: could Sauron have unmade the ring (in a different way from casting it into Mount Doom) and sucked back the power into himself?
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#30 | |
Enting
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 54
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So I think Sauron could have broken it, but I’m not sure about sucking the power back in. ![]() |
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#31 |
avocatus diaboli
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Himring
Posts: 1,582
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Interesting question...
I could probably go either way on it. It's likely, I think, that having spent so much power on it, he would have been unable to unmake it. [edited] meh. Ignore me. ![]() Anyone think Fëanor could have destroyed it?
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Neil Gaiman Last edited by Elemmírë : 03-03-2005 at 11:20 AM. |
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#32 | |
Enting
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 54
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So if Fëanor wrought the palant*ri, I think you could interpret this to mean that Fëanor’s smithcraft was greater than Sauron’s. That in turn would mean that Fëanor could have destroyed the One Ring. Of course, it could also mean that Fëanor was just more specialized in making seeing-stones than Saruman and Sauron. ![]() |
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#33 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
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Aha, but some good did come of the Ring. If it weren't for the Ring, Bilbo and the Dwarves never would have succeeded in their Quest, which resulted in the world being rid of Smaug (an evil being by nature and deed), the restoration of an important part of Dwarven civilization, and dealing a serious blow to the activities of the Orcs (who are also evil by nature and deed). It just wouldn't have gone down like that if it weren't for the Ring.
However, Bilbo remained admirably uncorrupted. If he had known what the Ring really was, or had he been more powerful in himself (like Gandalf or an Elf Lord), he might have become corrupted himself. He was still corrupted a bit, despite his good heart. "Power corrupts, but absolute power corrupts absolutely." - Lord Acton Bilbo did not have absolute power to weild the Ring to anything even near its full potential, so he could not become absolutely corrupted by it. Sauron, of course would. Even in the unlikely event of Sauron reforming, the Ring would still corrupt him. I think it would corrupt anyone (except Eru, or Tom Bombadil) who could weild it to its full power. It would be worse for Sauron because for him it would be like a recovered alcoholic having a drink. I don't think Fëanor would have destroyed it, he would have tried to take it apart to see how it worked. ![]()
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#34 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: On the Bay of Belfalas
Posts: 1,125
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Lord Acton did not mean that power corrupts everybody that has it, but that it had the potential to corrupt susceptible individuals, and that absolute power had the potential to corrupt absolutely those same individuals. I think we can safely classify Sauron as a suceptible individual, so that he should never even have been shown the Ring again, like an alcoholic should not be given a drink.
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. Last edited by Attalus : 03-12-2005 at 08:51 PM. |
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#35 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
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Thanks Attalus. That's a very good point.
Do you think, then, that if Gil-Galad and Isildur's places had changed, Gil-Galad would have destroyed the Ring? I think this is very likely.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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#36 | |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: On the Bay of Belfalas
Posts: 1,125
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Quote:
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
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#37 | ||
Ring-smith
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Either walking across Rohan or riding through Fangorn forest
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Thread killer ![]() Ring smith ![]() ![]() Merry Christmas! They'd never say that (Part 2) What happened to the dragon? |
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#38 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: LI-woods, NY
Posts: 653
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No more evil purpose , than Galadriel's (for example) wishes to became more powerful than elves in Aman. In this light I see the Ring as some kind of symbiotic generator-transmitter which feeding the life-force of carrier to the one-and-only receiving point - the Dark Tower. With melting in the fire the Ring-Generator got short-circuited - transformers blew up - stored energy (life-force) disappeared, what had been feed with it(Sauron) became powerless, but not completely gone. |
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#39 |
Lady of the Ulairi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 2,783
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I think the main power of the One ring was to control the other rings, to see and direct the minds and deeds of the other ringbearers. Other powers of the Ring (invisibility, intimidating weaker creatures, attracting followers etc.) were not that important.
With the One on his finger Sauron was able to make all the other rings (which didn't contain his power) work for him. He had to put a part of his own power into the Ring but acquired the power of the 19. So after the forging of the One, Sauron's combined power has increased greatly. At least that was his plan, which has worked partially (with the 9). The 7 proved to be rather useless (he would have been wiser to give them to the Men as well) and the 3 the Elves hid. But though Sauron has not got the power of the 3, at least he has prevented Elves from using their rings during all the rest of the II Age. Why any good person wielding the Ring turns to evil? IMHO wielding the ring means first of all controlling the other rings through their ringbearers, manipulating their minds and bending their wills, which is a great evil in itself. And then, of course, the new Ringlord becomes one with his ring and assimilates the part of bad Sauron's fea it contains... |
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#40 | |
Ring-smith
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Either walking across Rohan or riding through Fangorn forest
Posts: 2,000
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![]() You know, if souron was good it would take more than the one ring to change that... And souron does concrole the ring... You've got my opinion...
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