Why Did Elros Choose A Mortal Life? - Page 2

Elemmírë · 12-07-2004, 02:14 PM

Wow. Off topic, but still incredibly interesting and open to debate.

Elvish perception of time.

If you're interested in this topic, I've started a new thread here.

Sween · 12-08-2004, 08:07 AM

Not a small part of his reason for choseing to be a man was ambition! I mean look at what happened to him and Elrond! Elros went on to be the forefather of the greatest nation of men ever to have lived. He was the longest lived man of all time! He was a king. Elrond became a master of wisdom and lore but never in the full since a ruler.

Also a lot of what we know is Elrond centred learning as he acctually plays a part in the storys in which we read. But imgin you are in middle earth particually living in the rhelm of Gondor! would you have any idea who Elrond is? he probably would not of come into the teachings of the people of Gondor whilst Elros would of been this fantastic figure who gave up imortality to come and rule men. It can be argueed to the death but Elros legacy in middle earth is probably know to more than Elrond (of course the strands were re-united with Aragorn and Arwen)

Manveru · 12-08-2004, 05:26 PM

maybe elros was just curious about what happened to men when they die. i mean the elves know that they go to the halls of mandos but the men leave the earth and what happens to them is a mystery

Wayfarer · 12-08-2004, 05:41 PM

Here's a question:

Why wouldn't Elros have chosen mortality? He certainly got the better deal from where I stand.

By choosing to become a mortal, Elros got the best of both worlds.

A 900 Year Lifespan, giving him plenty of time to enjoy the world.
The Gift of Death, letting him leave when he got tired of Ea.
The ability to end his life voluntarily - something Elves had but Humans didn't.
The stature and bearing of the Elves.
The freedom and self-determination of Men.
The prosperity and bliss of living in a place made for him by the Valar (Numenore)
The ability to change and affect Middle Earth, rather than hiding away in Valinor.

Dude. What's not to like here? I'd certainly take Elros's fate over Elrond's any day of the week.

***Valandil*** · 12-08-2004, 05:49 PM

I'll have to check, but I think he only lived 400 or 500 years.

OTOH... his BROTHER had to wait about 3500 years to get married!!

Durin1 · 12-09-2004, 05:36 AM

I think it was 500 years.

I think Elros chose to me Mortal because he recognised the heroic heritage of his mortal ancestors on his father's side and felt there should continue to be a direct "pure" representation of the House of Hador that his father had sacrificed his life in ME to save; and he also does this in honour of his father.

ItalianLegolas · 12-11-2004, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

Here's a question:
Dude. What's not to like here? I'd certainly take Elros's fate over Elrond's any day of the week.

well, its true that elros didnt live to see the almost complete take over by Sauron, but he also didn't get to see the day when almost all evil was gone from the world. so i guess it could go either way

Telcontar_Dunedain · 12-12-2004, 02:53 PM

Well after Morgoth's fall what active evil was around when Elros was?

Elemmírë · 12-12-2004, 03:04 PM

TD's got a point.

My guess is it was just a matter of personal preference. Each race has its strengths and weaknesses, advantages and disadvantages. Their fates are different, but does this mean that one is actually better than the other?

Of course, one could ask why he chose to become mortal knowing that his brother, mother, and father had all chosen to be joined with the Eldar...

Telcontar_Dunedain · 12-12-2004, 03:14 PM

Earendiel did not chose to be elven because he wanted to. He did it for Elwing's sake, not his own.

Pytt · 12-12-2004, 03:16 PM

maybe he just was a rebel? when his mother, father and brother chose elves, maybe he wanted to be different, beacuse i would guess he had seen somewhat of what it would be to live like an elf.
I don't think one of the races are better than the other. as Elemmire says, both of them has it's own weaknesses and strengths.

Elemmírë · 12-12-2004, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

Earendiel did not chose to be elven because he wanted to. He did it for Elwing's sake, not his own.

Yes. Eärendil chose to be Elvish because of Elwing, but he still chose to be numbered among the Eldar. This is what I'm saying... Elros did not make a similar choice, he did not become Elvish for the sake of the rest of his family, but chose to sunder his fate from theirs.

Why? And less importantly... why are you invisible? Take off your elvish cloak and stay a while, TD...

Telcontar_Dunedain · 12-12-2004, 05:07 PM

Yet his fate was sundered from his mother's and fathers anyway. I think something that may also have influenced his descion, was seeing how many men fought for Morgoth in the War of the Wrath. Only the Edain fought for the Valar. Maybe he wanted to unite more men under the banner of the Valar.

ItalianLegolas · 12-14-2004, 03:58 PM

if you're talking about uniting under the Valar for the War of the Rinf, i don't think that makes sense, because by then most(if not all me, had forgotten about the Valar) the only beings on Middle-Earth who remeberd were the Istari and the Elves

Telcontar_Dunedain · 12-14-2004, 04:40 PM

Yet they would still have fought for the Valar if needs be. It could be argued that Sauron fought for Morgoth during the third age.

ItalianLegolas · 12-14-2004, 05:53 PM

Yes it could be argued, but the fact still remains that men didn't know who the Valar were! would you fight for someone you didn't even know? except to save your own butt?

Telcontar_Dunedain · 12-14-2004, 06:03 PM

I'm sure Men knew who they were like we know who George Bush or Tony Bair is. Yet they would be fighting for good instead of bad which was the point I was tring to get across.

ItalianLegolas · 12-14-2004, 06:30 PM

i get it now

Lenya · 12-25-2004, 10:53 AM

I can't understand how someone would choose a shorter live over a longer one. I am not one for living for ever, but I would have chosen to be an Elf if only to live longer. I mean, if you get the chance, take it. Then again, I woud have chosen Elf also cause I like them a lot

ItalianLegolas · 12-28-2004, 10:22 PM

well, i gues it gets stressful living forever, i mean, men who you knew would die, and you would just keep on living

12-07-2004, 02:14 PM	#21
Elemmírë avocatus diaboli Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Himring Posts: 1,582	Wow. Off topic, but still incredibly interesting and open to debate. Elvish perception of time. If you're interested in this topic, I've started a new thread here. __________________ ~ I have heard the languages of apocalypse and now I shall embrace the silence ~ Neil Gaiman Last edited by Elemmírë : 12-07-2004 at 02:41 PM.

12-08-2004, 08:07 AM	#22
Sween im quite stupid Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cockermouth Posts: 2,058	Not a small part of his reason for choseing to be a man was ambition! I mean look at what happened to him and Elrond! Elros went on to be the forefather of the greatest nation of men ever to have lived. He was the longest lived man of all time! He was a king. Elrond became a master of wisdom and lore but never in the full since a ruler. Also a lot of what we know is Elrond centred learning as he acctually plays a part in the storys in which we read. But imgin you are in middle earth particually living in the rhelm of Gondor! would you have any idea who Elrond is? he probably would not of come into the teachings of the people of Gondor whilst Elros would of been this fantastic figure who gave up imortality to come and rule men. It can be argueed to the death but Elros legacy in middle earth is probably know to more than Elrond (of course the strands were re-united with Aragorn and Arwen) __________________ Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot

12-08-2004, 05:26 PM	#23
Manveru Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 256	maybe elros was just curious about what happened to men when they die. i mean the elves know that they go to the halls of mandos but the men leave the earth and what happens to them is a mystery __________________ Earendel arose where the shadow flows At Ocean's silent brim; Through the mouth of night as a ray of light Where the shores are sheer and dim He launched his bark like a silver spark From the last and lonely sand; Then on sunlit breath of day's fiery death He sailed from Westerland

12-08-2004, 05:41 PM	#24
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Here's a question: Why wouldn't Elros have chosen mortality? He certainly got the better deal from where I stand. By choosing to become a mortal, Elros got the best of both worlds. A 900 Year Lifespan, giving him plenty of time to enjoy the world. The Gift of Death, letting him leave when he got tired of Ea. The ability to end his life voluntarily - something Elves had but Humans didn't. The stature and bearing of the Elves. The freedom and self-determination of Men. The prosperity and bliss of living in a place made for him by the Valar (Numenore) The ability to change and affect Middle Earth, rather than hiding away in Valinor. Dude. What's not to like here? I'd certainly take Elros's fate over Elrond's any day of the week. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

12-08-2004, 05:49 PM	#25
*Valandil* High King at Annuminas Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wyoming - USA Posts: 10,752	I'll have to check, but I think he only lived 400 or 500 years. OTOH... his BROTHER had to wait about 3500 years to get married!! __________________ My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!!

12-09-2004, 05:36 AM	#26
Durin1 Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Birmingham, UK Posts: 221	I think it was 500 years. I think Elros chose to me Mortal because he recognised the heroic heritage of his mortal ancestors on his father's side and felt there should continue to be a direct "pure" representation of the House of Hador that his father had sacrificed his life in ME to save; and he also does this in honour of his father. __________________ Durin the Sleepless!

12-12-2004, 02:53 PM	#28
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	Well after Morgoth's fall what active evil was around when Elros was? __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

12-12-2004, 03:04 PM	#29
Elemmírë avocatus diaboli Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Himring Posts: 1,582	TD's got a point. My guess is it was just a matter of personal preference. Each race has its strengths and weaknesses, advantages and disadvantages. Their fates are different, but does this mean that one is actually better than the other? Of course, one could ask why he chose to become mortal knowing that his brother, mother, and father had all chosen to be joined with the Eldar... __________________ ~ I have heard the languages of apocalypse and now I shall embrace the silence ~ Neil Gaiman

12-12-2004, 03:14 PM	#30
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	Earendiel did not chose to be elven because he wanted to. He did it for Elwing's sake, not his own. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

12-12-2004, 03:16 PM	#31
Pytt The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: trondheim, norway Posts: 1,388	maybe he just was a rebel? when his mother, father and brother chose elves, maybe he wanted to be different, beacuse i would guess he had seen somewhat of what it would be to live like an elf. I don't think one of the races are better than the other. as Elemmire says, both of them has it's own weaknesses and strengths. __________________ Don't Panic!

12-12-2004, 05:07 PM	#33
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	Yet his fate was sundered from his mother's and fathers anyway. I think something that may also have influenced his descion, was seeing how many men fought for Morgoth in the War of the Wrath. Only the Edain fought for the Valar. Maybe he wanted to unite more men under the banner of the Valar. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

12-14-2004, 03:58 PM	#34
ItalianLegolas Tolkien-aholic Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: somewhere in the solar system... more specifically NJ... Posts: 712	if you're talking about uniting under the Valar for the War of the Rinf, i don't think that makes sense, because by then most(if not all me, had forgotten about the Valar) the only beings on Middle-Earth who remeberd were the Istari and the Elves __________________ What was lost is now found.

12-14-2004, 04:40 PM	#35
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	Yet they would still have fought for the Valar if needs be. It could be argued that Sauron fought for Morgoth during the third age. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

12-14-2004, 05:53 PM	#36
ItalianLegolas Tolkien-aholic Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: somewhere in the solar system... more specifically NJ... Posts: 712	Yes it could be argued, but the fact still remains that men didn't know who the Valar were! would you fight for someone you didn't even know? except to save your own butt? __________________ What was lost is now found.

12-14-2004, 06:03 PM	#37
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	I'm sure Men knew who they were like we know who George Bush or Tony Bair is. Yet they would be fighting for good instead of bad which was the point I was tring to get across. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

12-14-2004, 06:30 PM	#38
ItalianLegolas Tolkien-aholic Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: somewhere in the solar system... more specifically NJ... Posts: 712	i get it now __________________ What was lost is now found.

12-25-2004, 10:53 AM	#39
Lenya Elentári Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: South Africa Posts: 727	I can't understand how someone would choose a shorter live over a longer one. I am not one for living for ever, but I would have chosen to be an Elf if only to live longer. I mean, if you get the chance, take it. Then again, I woud have chosen Elf also cause I like them a lot

12-28-2004, 10:22 PM	#40
ItalianLegolas Tolkien-aholic Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: somewhere in the solar system... more specifically NJ... Posts: 712	well, i gues it gets stressful living forever, i mean, men who you knew would die, and you would just keep on living __________________ What was lost is now found.

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