Why "The Lord of the Rings"?

sun-star · 06-08-2004, 07:37 AM

I'm sure this is an incredibly stupid question, but it's always puzzled me...

Why is LOTR named after the "Lord of the Rings"? Titles often have significance in defining the priorities and themes of a novel, so doesn't it seem a bit odd to choose to call LOTR after the "villain" of the story? There must have been hundreds of titles Tolkien could have chosen - why pick that one?

Come on, crack open your Letters of Tolkien. There's got to be an answer there

Beren3000 · 06-08-2004, 08:06 AM

The other day one of my friends (who is not that big a Tolkien fan) asked me the same question. (In fact at first he didn't believe me when I told him that Sauron was the Lord of the Rings)
So here's what I answered: I think that the major theme in the story is the power to fight evil and corruption. So it would only be fitting to name the story about Sauron whom the heroes fight.

But, thinking now, I don't find this answer to be good enough. I think I might have another one; I think it would sound even more stupid, but here goes:
I think that the title doesn't refer to Sauron. Rather, it refers to Frodo. Frodo, being able to resist and overcome the call of the Ring has become the real LOTR as he could rise above them. (I would also go on to add that Sauron was the Slave of the Rings because he was bound to the Ring and could never do without its evil powers to feed his greed)

Well, I know how all this sounds, but I have only one defense: I didn't read the Tolkien letters so I'm just speculating here.

Durin1 · 06-08-2004, 08:58 AM

If I remember correctly, Tolkien himself stated that the reason why the book is called The Lord of the Rings is because he wanted to point out that there could be no other "Lord of the Rings" than Sauron himself. He was undeniably putting across to the reader that it wasn't just the quest to destroy the One Ring that was integral to the main plot; but also that the effects of the other Rings would also diminish - as Sauron had control over them through the One.

sun-star · 06-11-2004, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beren3000
I think that the title doesn't refer to Sauron. Rather, it refers to Frodo. Frodo, being able to resist and overcome the call of the Ring has become the real LOTR as he could rise above them. (I would also go on to add that Sauron was the Slave of the Rings because he was bound to the Ring and could never do without its evil powers to feed his greed)

I never thought of that before

Unfortunately Frodo doesn't manage to rise above the call of the Ring though, does he? (it's so long since I read LOTR!) Maybe there is no Lord of the Rings (and good point, Durin, about it being all the rings) at all, because no one can rise above them.

I'm still confused though

Beren3000 · 06-11-2004, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sun-star
Unfortunately Frodo doesn't manage to rise above the call of the Ring though, does he?

I wouldn't say that. He managed to resist the Ring for a very long time, longer than anyone thought a hobbit would. I know that he eventually caved in to temptation but look how long he resisted it.

sun-star · 06-12-2004, 05:18 AM

True, indeed.

old scholar · 06-12-2004, 11:11 PM

i agree that frodo resisted the call of the ring for a very long time but i think that frodo never controlled the ring or could bend it to hs will thats why i think that the title refers to sauron , a constant throughout the series
but i am still very confused

Beren3000 · 06-13-2004, 02:52 AM

I am not saying that Frodo could control the Ring as in bend it to his will. I'm just saying that he could bring himself not to use it; which, IMO, is harder

Telcontar_Dunedain · 08-13-2004, 02:40 AM

Yet there were still flashes that showed the Ring was taking control. eg. When Sam found him in the tower or Cirith Ungol where for a moment he became stronger and angry, snatching it off Sam. I think he did well to resist it that long bu Bilbo managed to resist it for 60 years and then give it away!

Beren3000 · 08-13-2004, 04:15 AM

I think these moments where the Ring takes control are shown in the movie more than in the books (but then again, I don't have the strongest of memories

).

Ulmo · 08-14-2004, 01:52 PM

Frodo is definitely not the Lord of the Rings...that's a point made in the story. Gandalf points it out to Pippin:

Quote:

'Hurray!' cried Pippin, springing up. 'Here is our noble cousin! Make way for Frodo, Lord of the Ring!'

'Hush!' said Gandalf from the shadows at the back of the porch. 'Evil things do not come into this valley; but all the same we should not name them. The Lord of the Ring is not Frodo, but the master of the Dark Tower of Mordor, whose power is again stretching out over the world! We are sitting in a fortress. Outside it is getting dark.'

Attalus · 08-14-2004, 02:49 PM

Beat me to it, Ulmo. Yep, Sauron is called the Lord of the Rings, not because he has dominion over all of them, especially without the Ruling Ring, but because he was the proximate cause of them all being made, and if he regained the Ruling Ring, he would have indeed have dominion over all of them that remained.

06-08-2004, 07:37 AM	#1
sun-star Lady of Letters Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England Posts: 2,476	Why "The Lord of the Rings"? I'm sure this is an incredibly stupid question, but it's always puzzled me... Why is LOTR named after the "Lord of the Rings"? Titles often have significance in defining the priorities and themes of a novel, so doesn't it seem a bit odd to choose to call LOTR after the "villain" of the story? There must have been hundreds of titles Tolkien could have chosen - why pick that one? Come on, crack open your Letters of Tolkien. There's got to be an answer there __________________ And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool.

06-08-2004, 08:06 AM	#2
Beren3000 Fëanorophobic Join Date: May 2004 Location: Between the pages of a book Posts: 1,417	The other day one of my friends (who is not that big a Tolkien fan) asked me the same question. (In fact at first he didn't believe me when I told him that Sauron was the Lord of the Rings) So here's what I answered: I think that the major theme in the story is the power to fight evil and corruption. So it would only be fitting to name the story about Sauron whom the heroes fight. But, thinking now, I don't find this answer to be good enough. I think I might have another one; I think it would sound even more stupid, but here goes: I think that the title doesn't refer to Sauron. Rather, it refers to Frodo. Frodo, being able to resist and overcome the call of the Ring has become the real LOTR as he could rise above them. (I would also go on to add that Sauron was the Slave of the Rings because he was bound to the Ring and could never do without its evil powers to feed his greed) Well, I know how all this sounds, but I have only one defense: I didn't read the Tolkien letters so I'm just speculating here. Last edited by Beren3000 : 06-08-2004 at 11:54 AM.

06-08-2004, 08:58 AM	#3
Durin1 Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Birmingham, UK Posts: 221	If I remember correctly, Tolkien himself stated that the reason why the book is called The Lord of the Rings is because he wanted to point out that there could be no other "Lord of the Rings" than Sauron himself. He was undeniably putting across to the reader that it wasn't just the quest to destroy the One Ring that was integral to the main plot; but also that the effects of the other Rings would also diminish - as Sauron had control over them through the One. __________________ Durin the Sleepless!

06-12-2004, 05:18 AM	#6
sun-star Lady of Letters Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England Posts: 2,476	True, indeed. __________________ And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool.

06-12-2004, 11:11 PM	#7
old scholar Hobbit Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico Posts: 27	i agree that frodo resisted the call of the ring for a very long time but i think that frodo never controlled the ring or could bend it to hs will thats why i think that the title refers to sauron , a constant throughout the series but i am still very confused __________________ ``Here at the end of all things, Sam´´ - Frodo

06-13-2004, 02:52 AM	#8
Beren3000 Fëanorophobic Join Date: May 2004 Location: Between the pages of a book Posts: 1,417	I am not saying that Frodo could control the Ring as in bend it to his will. I'm just saying that he could bring himself not to use it; which, IMO, is harder

08-13-2004, 02:40 AM	#9
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	Yet there were still flashes that showed the Ring was taking control. eg. When Sam found him in the tower or Cirith Ungol where for a moment he became stronger and angry, snatching it off Sam. I think he did well to resist it that long bu Bilbo managed to resist it for 60 years and then give it away!

08-13-2004, 04:15 AM	#10
Beren3000 Fëanorophobic Join Date: May 2004 Location: Between the pages of a book Posts: 1,417	I think these moments where the Ring takes control are shown in the movie more than in the books (but then again, I don't have the strongest of memories ).

08-14-2004, 02:49 PM	#12
Attalus Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: On the Bay of Belfalas Posts: 1,125	Beat me to it, Ulmo. Yep, Sauron is called the Lord of the Rings, not because he has dominion over all of them, especially without the Ruling Ring, but because he was the proximate cause of them all being made, and if he regained the Ruling Ring, he would have indeed have dominion over all of them that remained. __________________ "What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial.

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