Role of women in LOTR

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
...About Eowyn it is said she was a man in the body of a woman.
Gandalf:

I don't think that's exactly what it's saying. Maybe she had some of the same aspirations and mentality as a warrior... but she also was all woman!

[Lady Magpie]

Or, there goes my theory. Hmm, let me see how I can read that again. . .

[Beruthiel's cat]

Originally posted by Valandil
I don't think that's exactly what it's saying. Maybe she had some of the same aspirations and mentality as a warrior... but she also was all woman!

That's right, Val. Eowyn lived in a culture where it was not uncommon for women to have the same attitudes about defending their families and homeland as the men -- and doubly so for her, being brought up in the court of King Theoden and doubtless sharing her education with Eomer, her brother and her cousin Theodred. Theoden considered her a daughter and would have raised her as such. And (if I may be allowed a flight of fancy here...) since she was raised around males (she has no female cousins or sisters that I'm aware of), Eowyn was probably something of a tomboy as a child. But it's unlikely that she ever wanted to be a man.

[Lady Magpie]

So I'm thinking of writing a paper on this now, just for fun. Maybe even comparing Eowyn to Joan of Arc--who I just wrote a paper on--because I can see some similarities there, with the gender idealogy and so on.

[Beruthiel's cat]

Originally posted by Lady Magpie
So I'm thinking of writing a paper on this now, just for fun. Maybe even comparing Eowyn to Joan of Arc--who I just wrote a paper on--because I can see some similarities there, with the gender idealogy and so on.

If you do, please share it with us. I'd be very interested!

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Originally posted by Beruthiel's Cat
That's right, Val. Eowyn lived in a culture where it was not uncommon for women to have the same attitudes about defending their families and homeland as the men
_______________________
Akin to the women of the Wainriders, who beat off an attack from remnants of the Northmen coming out of south Mirkwood.

By the way, are you one of the nine black cats or


The white cat!

[Beruthiel's cat]

Originally posted by Tuor of Gondolin
Originally posted by Beruthiel's Cat
That's right, Val. Eowyn lived in a culture where it was not uncommon for women to have the same attitudes about defending their families and homeland as the men
_______________________
Akin to the women of the Wainriders, who beat off an attack from remnants of the Northmen coming out of south Mirkwood.

By the way, are you one of the nine black cats or


The white cat!

I'm the one who came back....

[Lady Magpie]

Originally posted by Beruthiel's cat
If you do, please share it with us. I'd be very interested!

I'd be glad to! I hope I get to that; I have a lot of reading I want to get done this summer so it might take me a while But I have my Jeanne d'Arc paper already, I might work off of that.

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by Valandil
I don't think that's exactly what it's saying. Maybe she had some of the same aspirations and mentality as a warrior... but she also was all woman!

I know. I remembered something different. That's what I found... I thought it's good enough.

About Luthien: you can say that Varda was a strong female character as well. Luthien was strong becuase she was daughter of Meilan, a strong maia. Not becuase she developed those magic skills she has.

[Mrs Maggot]

About Eowyn it is said she was a man in the body of a woman.

Is that to say that strength, courage and ambitions to be a warrior are the sole domain of men? Can't you just hear the feminists sharpening their axes! But it is a good point that at the time these qualities were mainly possessed by men, which makes Eowyn a very interesting character. What I like about her is that she has all these tough qualities and yet remains very feminine; it shows that they are not mutually exclusive. This is a really interesting thread.

[Beruthiel's cat]

While stumbling around in Appendix A, I ran across this interesting quote regarding the rulers of Numenor:

"The sixth King left only one child, a daughter. She became the first Queen; for it was then made a law of the royal house that the eldest child of the King, whether man or woman, should recieve the septre."

A very unusual law, and hardly the norm in European society. I think this is more evidence of Tolkien's view of women as having equal importance and significance in society.

[Rían]

Originally posted by ethuiliel
They weren't women acting like men, they were women, who were still women, but also powerful in their own ways.

I agree.

I was a "guest speaker" at a women's Bible study recently, and I was encouraging them to NOT try to be men, like our society often pressures women to be, because the best they'll achieve is to be a second-rate man; but instead to strive to be first-rate women. Women are powerful!

[Rían]

Originally posted by Eärniel
What I don't understand is why books that have more prominent characters of one sexe immediatly seem to make the writer a sexist. Tolkien has strong female characters in his Lord of the Rings. But what if he hadn't? Can't a good book have only male or female characters? Does it bother people that much that for instance Treasure Island barely has one female character?

LOTR is a ripping good story. I don't go around tallying the male and female characters in it. I'm very secure in who I am as a woman and don't need to get into that kind of stuff. If I find something offensive or stereotyped, I'll say so, but the mere fact that there aren't a lot of women characters in LOTR doesn't make it "bad".

[Valandil]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
...Women are powerful!

*ducks*

[Rían]

Originally posted by Finrod Felagund
And if you think Tolkien did not write strong female characters (and all those in LotR are not enough for you) read the Silmarillion,
Luthien, Haleth, Morwen...wow...

Agreed!


*bops Valandil*

[Rían]

Originally posted by Eärniel
Exactly my feelings. And that's why I don't like what Peter Jackson did with Arwen in the first movie. Giving her more screen time, I'm all for, but having her wave a sword around does not make her a stronger character.

As if giving up your immortality and chances of seeing your own family again across the seas doesn't already show the strength of her character.

Ex-actly!

[Rían]

(whoops - I was in a rather feisty mood yesterday - did I scare everyone away?)

[Beor]

Yeah, I was pretty unhappy with how they gave Arwen more screen time. I dont recall Elrond ever trying to convince Aragorn to abandon Arwen, and I dont recall Arwen ever going west. As I remember it, Arwen stayed and supported Aragorn throughout the war, and I think they should have focused on the love, not the fact that all outcomes of the war were wrought with sorrow for Elrond. Why not take it back to Lothlorien? I mean hell, man.

Anyway, yeah, women are strong, and they make some strong choices in his books. Hell, I dont know why Beren gets any damn credit at all. Luthien did all the work (and Huan, but mainly Luthien).

[Earniel]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
(whoops - I was in a rather feisty mood yesterday - did I scare everyone away?)

No, I'm still gloating that you argeed with me.

Girl power!

Neh neh neh...

[Rían]

Go us!


(but men rock, too, IMO )