The Catholic Priesthood

[Lalaith]

Originally posted by Tessar
I don't have a problem with the thought of women Priests, except that the Church says there will be none, so there will be none. If some women did try to become priests though, I would be against it since church law dictates that priests are men.

Also, if you need an example of how women priests can tear a Faith apart, look at the Anglican Church. I mean holy cow, you've got HUGE sections splitting away, people everywhere divided over the issue, and just so so many interior problems.

Not to mention that it'd be a little strange calling a woman 'father' . But I mean what else would you call her? That is the title of a priest, further indication that it's a man's station.

And no I'm not being sexist. There are many roles that women fill that men simply can't.

It’s similar in some ways to letting Priests marry. We have a married priest at our church (since he was an Anglican convert, already married, and Pope John Paul II issued a ‘summons’ for Anglican Priests to come and be Catholic priests). It’s fine that he’s married for us as a Parish, but for his family it’s rough. His kids are grown now, but I know they feel like they had to be pushed aside rather often so he could do his Priestly duties. It’s a nice thought to have married Priests, but it just doesn’t work very well.

Well, this church has to change. Or how can you explain all these people leaving the church. Maybe they are just too sick of the old system and it's rigidity (yeah, I know, there are also Atheists, but not all of those who leave the church).

And I think the Catholic church shouldn't always say: It's a men's job, the Bible says so and so on and so forth.
That's just a lame excuse for not letting women come into a far too long domain ruled by men.
I can't come up with any good reason why a woman should NOT be a Priest.

[Tessar]

1. Many of them are emotionally unstable. Admit it, when something bad happens people go to the FATHER, not the mother, because in general men handle stress better than women.

2. If it's such a lame excuse, explain to me why the Catholic Church even EXISTS. We ARE based off the bible, and off what Jesus instituted. Who did he call to follow him? Twelve men. Who was the first pope? A man. And don't say that it was because of the 'customs' of the time. Jesus went against almost every custom.

3. The Church IS changing, and has changed. Some times for the better, some times for the worst. And the Catholic Church today isn't rigid at all compared to what it used to be.

4. I can explain why people leave the Catholic Church. Because they want something simpler, more modern, and 'feel good'.

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Tessar
Not to mention that it'd be a little strange calling a woman 'father' . But I mean what else would you call her? That is the title of a priest, further indication that it's a man's station.

LOL, this is hardly an argument. How about calling her 'mother'? Is that so strange? It's already used in nonneries as far as I know.

[Tessar]

The TITLE of a Priest is Father . They put the Fr. in front of their name.

And I didn't mean it as an 'argument' against women Priests, it was just a statement .

EDIT:

Also did you mean in 'Nunneries'? If not I have no idea what you're talking about, as I've never heard of a nonary.

Now if you DO mean Nunneries, then it hardly counts. It's Mother Superior, not a priest by any length of the imagination

[Earniel]

Yes nunneries, you little nitpicker. I got confused with the Dutch word which has an 'o'.

I still fail to see the difference, a mother superior may be a far cry from a priest but my point was mainly that it isn't so alien to call somebody 'mother' with the christian church organisation.

But I can understand 'Mother' can't be abbreviated so easily as Father.

I know you didn't mean it like a real argument, I just thought it was rather funny.

[Tessar]

I didn't SAY the term Mother wasn't used in the Church! *cry* What I SAID was that the title for a PRIEST is Father.

*starts beating Earniel over the head with a Spork*

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Eärniel
Yes nunneries, you little nitpicker.

Oh like HE can speak - he's going to a 'privet' school. Guess he wants to trim hedges when he grows up.

Tessar, I have bone to pick with you RE: stress and women. I would argue that they both handle it differently, not the same, or better.

[Tessar]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
I would argue that they both handle it differently, not the same, or better.

*shrug* Then I would argue that the way men deal with it is more suited to the Priesthood. Fair enough?

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Tessar
I didn't SAY the term Mother wasn't used in the Church! *cry* What I SAID was that the title for a PRIEST is Father.

*starts beating Earniel over the head with a Spork*

Yes, but the only reason for the title for priests being Father is because they have tend to have been uniformly male since a very long time. And since we have had the word PRIESTESS for a long while too I don't see why the step from Father to Mother is such a big deal.

Beating me with a spork, eh? The nerve...

*dunks Tessar head first in sea*

[Fat middle]

I think that the reason why Priest are only male is because of the meaning of Priesthood.

In the Cathlic Church, Priesthood is not just a sort of leadership over the parish. The priest is not only "a shepherd". That could be done by a woman. And certainly the Mother Superior of a nunnery is sort of a leader/shepherd of her nuns.

The main meaning of Priesthood is about the role of the Priest in the Liturgy. The meaning of Liturgy in the Catholic Church is slightly different from what it is in other churches or christian communities.

Our Liturgy is a work of the whole Chuch (celestial and terrestrial) and the Priest "plays" the part of Christ, the One Priest (see Letter to the Hebrews) in the terrestrial Liturgy. He acts not only "in the name of Jesus", but "in the person of Jesus" who is the only rightful priest.

One may or not agree with that, but that is what we believe, and therefore the Church says that the priests should be men in order to represent Christ the best (since, as BoP pointed out men and women are different, not better nor worse). For this argument, the Church has also in mind that Christ choose only males to be their priests.

But that, of course, doesn't mean that women are less important in the Catholic Church. They're summoned to the same level of sanctitity than men.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally posted by Lalaith
And I think the Catholic church shouldn't always say: It's a men's job, the Bible says so and so on and so forth.
That's just a lame excuse for not letting women come into a far too long domain ruled by men.
I can't come up with any good reason why a woman should NOT be a Priest.

Well, if you're a Catholic, don't you believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God? If so, the Word of God saying that women shouldn't be priests is a very profound reason. It is unless you don't believe it says what Tessar claims it says.

Originally posted by Tessar
Also, if you need an example of how women priests can tear a Faith apart, look at the Anglican Church. I mean holy cow, you've got HUGE sections splitting away, people everywhere divided over the issue, and just so so many interior problems.

The issue the Anglican Church is schisming over is the homosexual/lesbian issue. That is not the fault of women exclusively, but also the fault of men. It is the fault of the relativistic and liberal mindset that so many people adhere to, nowadays (forgive me liberal Entmooters; I know you are many, here).

[Lalaith]

Originally posted by Lief Erikson
Well, if you're a Catholic, don't you believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God? If so, the Word of God saying that women shouldn't be priests is a very profound reason. It is unless you don't believe it says what Tessar claims it says.

I'd call the Bible rather an interpretation of the Word of God by men than the Word of God as it was said (only symbolic ...).

1. Many of them are emotionally unstable. Admit it, when something bad happens people go to the FATHER, not the mother, because in general men handle stress better than women.

2. If it's such a lame excuse, explain to me why the Catholic Church even EXISTS. We ARE based off the bible, and off what Jesus instituted. Who did he call to follow him? Twelve men. Who was the first pope? A man. And don't say that it was because of the 'customs' of the time. Jesus went against almost every custom.

3. The Church IS changing, and has changed. Some times for the better, some times for the worst. And the Catholic Church today isn't rigid at all compared to what it used to be.

4. I can explain why people leave the Catholic Church. Because they want something simpler, more modern, and 'feel good'.

1. Can't admit that because I know many people who would rather tell their problems to a woman than to a man. I think Priesthood is also about compassion and some other things that women are very good in. Emotionally unstable. Not my point of view.

2. Oh and yes, I would say, because of the customs of the time. Well, Jesus was good and changed many things, but maybe the time was not ripe enough for women then.

3. Well, even if it got better (hmm, there was this cool pope, about 50 years ago, I think he could have changed the church) it is still rigid.

[Beruthiel's cat]

Though I can't get into the debate on women in the priesthood (since I am not a Catholic -- I'm an upstart Lutheran...) I do want to commend you on your interest in becoming a priest, Tessar! I think it is admirable in this day and age to have a young person willing to make such a commitment. If you feel strongly about your faith and you feel that the priesthood is your calling, you should pursue it.

From the maturity and insight you have displayed here, you have many of the characteristics you will need to have as a "shepherd". You have exceptional people skills, you communicate very well, your writing skills are strong and you are compassionate and willing to look at the other person's point of view in a non-judgemental way. And you have a good sense of humor which is essential when you are dealing with other people on an intense, day-to-day basis. Humor can never be under-rated!

So I say, good for you. Look into it more and make your decision based on prayerful consideration and God will lead you to the right way for you to go!

[Tessar]

Originally posted by Lalaith
1. Can't admit that because I know many people who would rather tell their problems to a woman than to a man. I think Priesthood is also about compassion and some other things that women are very good in. Emotionally unstable. Not my point of view.

2. Oh and yes, I would say, because of the customs of the time. Well, Jesus was good and changed many things, but maybe the time was not ripe enough for women then.

3. Well, even if it got better (hmm, there was this cool pope, about 50 years ago, I think he could have changed the church) it is still rigid.

All right, I'm certainly willing to agree with you on the first point. Some people would rather tell their problems to a woman.

I completely disagree with you though on the second point. For one thing Jesus wasn't just 'good', he was GOD. If he had wanted a woman apostle, he would've had one and to hell with what the customs of the time said. He broke SO many 'laws' of the time that you can't say if he'd wanted women, he couldn't have had them.

You said you like being a Catholic because the Church was beautiful, however part of its beauty is that it IS so rigid. We don't have to make 'moral' choices and decide what's right or wrong, the Catechism tells us what's right and what's wrong. That's part of why 'pro-choice' people can't call themselves Catholics. Abortion is a mortal sin, and to encourage it is just as bad. They still call themselves Catholic, but in truth they aren't.

Part of being Catholic is total obedience to the Pope, and to the Church Laws.

And Lief:

It has a lot to do with the Women Priests. The Archbishop is trying to figure out what to do about the issue, since many of the women are teaching heresy. To 'fix' the problem he'd have to excommunicate 60-70% of the women Priests, as well as likely stopping any more from being ordained.

Earnil:

… You so know that’s not what I’m talking about you meany .

Beruthial:

Why thank you . *huggles*

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Tessar
Earnil:

… You so know that’s not what I’m talking about you meany .

Eärniel, if you please. I am not a Gondorean general. Still got a lot to lean in your 'privet' school, don't ya boy?

So you're not talking about hitting me over the head with a spork? Odd because that's what you wrote.

[Tessar]

*mutters something angsty*

*yanks thread back on track*

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Tessar
All right, I'm certainly willing to agree with you on the first point. Some people would rather tell their problems to a woman.

I completely disagree with you though on the second point. For one thing Jesus wasn't just 'good', he was GOD. If he had wanted a woman apostle, he would've had one and to hell with what the customs of the time said. He broke SO many 'laws' of the time that you can't say if he'd wanted women, he couldn't have had them.

You said you like being a Catholic because the Church was beautiful, however part of its beauty is that it IS so rigid. We don't have to make 'moral' choices and decide what's right or wrong, the Catechism tells us what's right and what's wrong. That's part of why 'pro-choice' people can't call themselves Catholics. Abortion is a mortal sin, and to encourage it is just as bad. They still call themselves Catholic, but in truth they aren't.

Part of being Catholic is total obedience to the Pope, and to the Church Laws.

I'm gald I'm not the only Catholic that believes this! most of my "Catholic" friends aren't really Catholic b/c they just pick and choose what to believe.

also, Lalaith,
just remember Mary....the only person ever born without Original Sin (according to Catholic teaching)...she was a woman and that's a pretty big privledge IMO

[Lalaith]

Originally posted by Tessar
All right, I'm certainly willing to agree with you on the first point. Some people would rather tell their problems to a woman.

I completely disagree with you though on the second point. For one thing Jesus wasn't just 'good', he was GOD. If he had wanted a woman apostle, he would've had one and to hell with what the customs of the time said. He broke SO many 'laws' of the time that you can't say if he'd wanted women, he couldn't have had them.

You said you like being a Catholic because the Church was beautiful, however part of its beauty is that it IS so rigid. We don't have to make 'moral' choices and decide what's right or wrong, the Catechism tells us what's right and what's wrong. That's part of why 'pro-choice' people can't call themselves Catholics. Abortion is a mortal sin, and to encourage it is just as bad. They still call themselves Catholic, but in truth they aren't.

Part of being Catholic is total obedience to the Pope, and to the Church Laws.

Well, if you think so, it's alright for me. But it's just not what I believe.

I never said that I like being a Catholic because of the church (at least I really doubt that I ever said so). I like the faith and the principles of the Catholic church but not everything they do and represent. Big difference.

[Tessar]

Lalaith the faith IS the Church. You can't take half the package, you have to be willing to take the whole thing.

Quite honestly I think you might enjoy the Anglican Church more from some things you've said.

[Anglorfin]

Might I bring something else into the argument for women priests? here' goes


Women were actually the first evangelists. The first proclaimers that Christ had risen. Who went to the tomb before the two Apostles? Who told the two Apostles that Jesus had risen?