Joking about bombs on planes...

[Earniel]

I'm not sure if saying you have a bomb aboard an airplane can still be considered as a joke. You can't blame security for checking. After all, just suppose it was for real and the security thought it was a joke and had let the guy go aboard without checking. Now, that would have caused an outcry.

Now, if you're just joking to a friend on an airplane about bombs in shoes, I can understand that. I think I might even do that. But if you're going to the personnel and say you have a bomb, I find that, well... rather stupid of you.

The punishment was a little over the top IMO but I think it isn't bad to let people realise that such things aren't always such a laughing matter, no matter how funny you yourself may find them.

[Radagast The Brown]

I'm not saying the guy wasn't a jerk, but - if he was really a terrorist - would he really tell people, before the flight, that he has a bomb on the plane?
He could probably a lunetic though - but even if he was, I don't think he would tell people aroud the airport he has a bomb on the plane. It's quite illogical. Even for a lunetic.

I'm not saying they were right, I'm saying the steward and the law system in USA overreacted.

[Sminty_Smeagol]

Now, I don't have a great understanding of the american justice system, and I am not too familiar with this story except for some skimming I've been doing, but in my understanding, I don't think of all that (fining, jailtime) as punishment, but as neccessary responsibilities. The attendant took what he said as a bomb threat, and therefor contacted the neccessary security for a bomb threat. So who's responsible for the misunderstanding? The attendant? It's not her fault for misunderstanding that he was joking. How do you define the line between a joke and a possible threat? You can control what you say, but not what you hear. She was just reacting in the proper way as to how she understood it.

All of those security people need to be payed for having done all that, so that's where the fine comes in (I think?). He had to pay for all the trouble and effort he caused people, or the misunderstanding that was a result from his speech caused people.

[Valandil]

Frankly, I think this person would have been treated more harshly if he had done this in France. The French media just see this as another convenient way to pick on America. Try it in a French airport (even if you're French yourself) and see what happens.

It's not a matter of free speech. You don't yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater as a joke (a classic definition on the limits of free speech) and you don't joke about airplane bombs and hi-jackings (a necessary 21st century adjustment). It is the responsibility of anyone who hears such talk; airport or airline staff, federal agents and fellow passengers - to take such statements seriously and report them.

How would you like to be the one who took it as a joke and wound up with a bomb going off over mid-Atlantic?

(EDIT: I think this person was lucky to get off as easy as they did - they should count their blessings!)

[Dúnedain]

Here is something a lot of people are forgetting. It was illegal to say the word "bomb" well before 9/11. Remember, bombings on planes happened many many years prior to 9/11. I know the US isn't the only country that takes that word serious as well, so don't make it an US issue, but also know this was set before 9/11, it is just more of a spark now...

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by The Gaffer
Though I have a question for you, JerseyDevil: what do you think ordinary French people think about this guy?

Well according to the french news - they are treating him like a hero. Someone that was wrongly abused by America. They showed tons of people welcoming him back at the airport and they said he's book for days on French talk shows to tell all the French about his terrible experience in America. I posted the link for the news cast - but they don't subtitle the net broadcast.

He had pages of negative things to say about US that he had written on the plane and was reading them as he went past the crowds - but they basically just did a voice over saying that this was what he was doing. They did air him saying that America was a young soulless country and he is very glad to be in old europe where there is a soul and culture though. I wish I could watch the French talk shows and see how they react to him and how they act toward America. I'm sure the French contempt of America is FAR FAR greater than anyone wishes to acknowledge and believe and this news cast was only the tip of the iceberg of what will be on the talkshows..

BTW - French 2 also reported that it is being said in other news sources that Americans are targeting french people. NO - we are targeting terrorists. Also - I need to remind people that when this happened the US was on high alert. He got what he deserved - and the fine was way way lenient. They probably reduced his fine because of his jail time. He was not at all cooperative - and that is part of the reason for so much jail time too. How would the courts know that if they let him go until his court date - he wouldn't end up blowing something up?

[Nurvingiel]

I think anyone making a joke about having a bomb would have been treated the same way. Everyone knows you don't mess around with airline security, and I'm glad. My brother even takes the tiny screw driver for adjusting his oboe out of his carry-on luggage when he flies.

Airline travel is extremely safe, and I want it to stay that way.

[Earniel]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Well according to the french news - they are treating him like a hero. [..]

Each time you mention something said in the French news, I can't shake the feeling that it sounds to me like it's from a tabloid on TV rather than real news. It just sound so exaggerated, even for the French. I'm not saying you have anything to do with it, but it's just rather off the impression I got from the French people and the few rare times I watched their news while on holiday on Corsica.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Eärniel
Each time you mention something said in the French news, I can't shake the feeling that it sounds to me like it's from a tabloid on TV rather than real news. It just sound so exaggerated, even for the French. I'm not saying you have anything to do with it, but it's just rather off the impression I got from the French people and the few rare times I watched their news while on holiday on Corsica.

It's not tabloid and you can see it for yourself...French 2 The 20 Heures is the broadcast that is shown here.

Also - in the first post I put a link for the newscast - so anyone who speaks French can watch it for themselves. Even if you don't speak French you can see what a mad house the airport was and the attitude of the guy through his facial experience has he got off the plane.

[Earniel]

I know, I know. It just sound so odd and exaggerated. I can't see the video, Dave keeps freezing up. I guess I should try to watch the French news on TV more....

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Eärniel
I know, I know. It just sound so odd and exaggerated. I can't see the video, Dave keeps freezing up. I guess I should try to watch the French news on TV more....

Yeah - they make little digs in too. But I'm not sure if they made any "American-digs" this time. They do a lot when they talk about Iraq though and they do when they talked about the California Governor's race.

[edit]A couple of days ago they had a news story on John Kerry's cousin. I guess Kerry has relatives in France and they went on and on abotu John Kerry. They make no secret that they don't want Bush to win and that if he does - Americans are idiots.

I guess Dave must be getting old. I can watch it on dial up with no problem, but my computer is new.

[jerseydevil]

Earniel - an example of what France 2 does was demonstrated today. They were having about the Weapons Inspector Kay stepping down and saying how many people think that Bush was lying. They showed Kay telling congress that it doesn't seem like we will find weapons of mass destruction. Then they cut to Bush giving an Oval Office address to the American Public. The voice over says - "was he lying?" and then goes to a close up of his face.

They edited the footage because when the president addresses the nation from the oval office the camera is stationary and does not zoom in and out - they added that in to give the "Is he lying" more effect. It has a subconcious pyschological effect, that will enforce the "lying" part. He didn't lie - the world's intelligence agencies all felt Hussein had weapons, including Clinton and the UN. Clinton even got on TV before the war and said that under his administation all the intelligence showed that Hussein had weapons. I think the French news is biased against America - at least france 2.

Sorry - this goes off the topic at hand - but this is an example of how French News seems to work - again - at least France 2 does.

[Earniel]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I guess Dave must be getting old. I can watch it on dial up with no problem, but my computer is new.

Dave's just had his second birthday, not that old yet. I think I may just need to update my quicktime. The rest of the website loads fine, just not the video.

I still can't believe that's the way they handle the national news, it's pretty unprofessional and rather biased.

Oh, yes now back on topic....

[The Gaffer]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I think the French news is biased against America - at least france 2.

I don't doubt that they are. Given the vitriol that American leaders and media directed towards France just because they had the temerity to disagree with their decision to invade Iraq, it's hardly surprising.

However, I spent two weeks in France last summer and met several people who supported the American position. I would imagine that most ordinary French people think this guy is a fool.

As we all know, most media are more concerned with entertainment and scandal than with sober assessment.

I wonder what the reason is for this macabre fascination with how anti-American the French are? To me, it seems to tie in with the right-wing tactics of branding those who disagree with you as traitors. The aim is to divide people further, so that moderates are forced to choose between the two extremes (one of which is labelled "traitor").

[Valandil]

Originally posted by The Gaffer
I don't doubt that they are. Given the vitriol that American leaders and media directed towards France just because they had the temerity to disagree with their decision to invade Iraq, it's hardly surprising.

However, I spent two weeks in France last summer and met several people who supported the American position. I would imagine that most ordinary French people think this guy is a fool.

As we all know, most media are more concerned with entertainment and scandal than with sober assessment.

I wonder what the reason is for this macabre fascination with how anti-American the French are? To me, it seems to tie in with the right-wing tactics of branding those who disagree with you as traitors. The aim is to divide people further, so that moderates are forced to choose between the two extremes (one of which is labelled "traitor").

I don't see it as a recent thing, Gaffer. I've had the impression for many years - decades even, that the French have this attitude in general. Just anything I've heard from people who have been there and the treatment they receive... in restaurants is what I've heard specificially. I'm sure this doesn't hold for all of their people, but it's sort of the reputation they have here - and have had for many years (and many Presidents - so there's nothing liberal or conservative about it).

[brownjenkins]

french guy ~ stupid

french stereotyping going on in this thread ~ just as stupid

[Valandil]

Originally posted by brownjenkins
french guy ~ stupid

french stereotyping going on in this thread ~ just as stupid

I'm not attempting to stereotype... just relating what the general stereotype seems to be. I hope there's a difference. What I've gathered comes from overwhelming anectdotal accounts - and is fairly consistent - though some I hear from say otherwise. The general consensus was that if you didn't actually speak French while in France, you received second-class treatment... though it might get a little better if you proved you could speak something else besides just English.

If I met any person from any place though, I would treat them as anybody else and give them a chance to be an individual... regardless of what I'd heard about where they were from.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by brownjenkins
french guy ~ stupid

french stereotyping going on in this thread ~ just as stupid

It's not stereotyping - because the majority of French people I have come into contact with have been this way. The only two that I have met who were nice - were my French teacher - who was from France and said that all the stuff about them being arrogant was true and a friend''s wife who was from France. They were from Winnipeg, Canada though.

Also BrownJenkins - I watch the French News EVERYDAY - how many times do you see it?

I have come into contact with French people who all they did was bad mouth the US - and the worst time was a french woman at the Grand Canyon who went around telling anyone who wasn't American how the US had no culture, and how she hated this country. This was years before Iraq. Thje ironic thing was that she had been living in the US for years. I knew exactly how much she hated the US and her life story because I kept passing her as she was talking to a British couple (who was very happy when she left), some guys from Sweden, a couple from India, and others.

I had also got into a conversation with my friend from Itay about the French, and she said - "don't worry - they're arrogant against everyone". I have noticed on the French news that they routinely have "negative" news reports about Italians on France 2.

I have also gone on French forums or chatrooms because I wanted to practice my french. I also always wanted to speak with a french person. I have routinely come into contact with french people who say -"I will talk to anyone but an America". Again - this is not stereotyping - this is from personal experience. This was BEFORE Iraq.

And Gaffer - you have no idea what our media was like or what they showed or what they do show. We had a problem with the Chirac bad mouthing us and making deals with Powell and then going against them. You don't everything about the US and to tell you the truth - you hardly know anything about the US. You are just as bigotted against American as you claim we are against the French. At least I try to find out the real deal.

America had a negative attitude toward France after Iraq - but that was not the case before. As Valandil said - the French attitude has been for decades. America's has been recent and mostly because the Iraq thing opened up people's eyes to how France acts towards Americans.

[brownjenkins]

i was bothered more by JDs statement than anything else

I'm sure the French contempt of America is FAR FAR greater than anyone wishes to acknowledge and believe and this news cast was only the tip of the iceberg of what will be on the talkshows.

can we really conclude this from one incident, or even twenty such incidents for that matter?

that would be like if i was a european and only watched the fox news report... would it be fair for me to claim that all americans are right-wing conservatives?

for the most part you would get second class treatment as an american (or almost any foreigner) in france Valandil... but not all french people act that way

it's no different then the treatment a muslim might get by many people in new york (maybe a majority)

all countries, including our own, have good and bad cultural attitudes... but they are also full of many individuals who don't hold those attitudes



JD ~

Stereotyping - Stereotyping is the process of assuming a person or group has one or more characteristics because most members of that group have (or are thought to have) the same characteristics. It is a simplification and generalization process that helps people categorize and understand their world, but at the same time it often leads to errors. Examples of stereotypes that are often wrong are that women are weak and submissive, while men are powerful and domineering. This may be true for some women and some men, but it is not true for all. When stereotypes are inaccurate and negative (as they often are between groups in conflict) they lead to misunderstandings which make resolving the conflict more difficult.

yes, you are stereotyping... and no, i never watch the french news

[The Gaffer]

JerseyDevil, yet again you betray yourself with your unhinged and irrational accusations. Maybe those bigoted French people you met on the chat rooms (a truly representative sample, no doubt) got their anti-American prejudice from reading your posts.