Politics

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

ooh, politics, ouch. . .

There's definitely some major political stuff in my stories. Disclaimer before I continue: most of my writing is actually the result of a joint effort in creating this world that parallels our own in most ways, with my two best friends. Just to give them some credit--it's not all mine

Anyway, we figured these stories are set in a world almost exactly like our own, but considering the timing of the stories, we had to work it out so a few things didn't happen, because otherwise the politics of the supernatural world would get too caught up in the mundane world and that's just messy.

First, there's the Demon Council.
They attempt to control the goings-on in the world of the Undead and the minor demons. So basically, it's an organization that ignores the political boundaries of the human world. It's an oligarchy, really--the Council makes all the decisions, judicial and legislative, and it's their lackeys who enforce the law and do the sort of ambassador type things. The Council is made up primarliy of Western Judeo-Christian type demons, however, it is not entirely exclusive. I'll get into inter-religion/mythology stuff later, that's another huge complication. The goals of the Council are centered primarily around maintaining secrecy: they don't want the humans to know about the Supernaturals (S-nats). Because then you get mobs coming after you with torches and pitchforks, and that's just ever so annoying. . .Also, they want to maintain a sort of order, and keep everyone under their control. While they are a powerful force in the world of the S-nats, they lack the unity that would give them even greater power. This is why they eventually fail when they try to take over the world and destroy the human race. Note also, that the original goals of the Council were much more. . .nice.

The Undead Disposal Service.
Ah, the Service. . .this is a human organization, founded around the same time as the Council, and again, made with different intentions. Originally it was just to keep the human populace safe from nasty Undead and Demons, and to keep anything like Vlad Dracula from happening again. (Yes, he was a vampire. Deal. ) Now they are a secret agency of the government, in the US. They get funding, but their goals change slightly. First they just get particuarly nasty about a. keeping it secret, b. killing the Undead whether they're being a big threat or not, and c. the way they treat their Slayers. However, as time goes on, and part of the central plot of one of my stories, their goals go into this panicked Witch-hunt like frenzy, trying to kill any and all Supernatural beings. The current leader went extremely paranoid. Nice.

Those are the main political groups. They hate each other, and hate my main characters. It's probably full of "Messages," but they are unintentional, entirely. Story first, as has been said

And then there's religion, which is also rather complicated. See, technically, creatures from different pantheons/religions/mythology cannot exist on teh same plane. For example, an angel and a tengu can't have a conversation in a pub. They shouldn't be able to. However, there is a certain amount of rule-bending that goes on, and many of the more minor creatures are able to ignore this rule. Thus the stories in which Tengu, a vampire who had been Catholic before being Turned, a werewolf from North America, and a Fey can all get together and chat, plot evilly, or raise hell. However, if, say, one of my other creations, a fallen Angel of a very high order--I call her Gil Estel for lack of a better name--cannot in any way have a conversation with a Tengu. The existance of the first negates the existance of the other. It all gets very complicated. Said Angel and, say, Susano-wo, the Shinto storm god, could not ever be anywhere near each other on the same plane. If they tried to get even close, they'd both feel extremely ill. That gets rather complicated. However, for example, and here I suppose I am letting a Message slip in a little......The Morrigan (Celtic war goddess) could have a conversation with Odin (though I can't see why she'd want to ) because those pantheons do not, as a rule, attempt to negate the others existance. Interesting, how that works

Right, I can't imagine anyone wanting to read all of what I just wrote...got a little carried away there...heh...

[Lief Erikson]

Actually . . . I just finished reading it all. It sounds interesting, and definitely has potential. How far have you gotten into the story itself, so far? Or are you still only at the plotting stage?

Today and yesterday I have done loads of thinking as I work on my own book, The Uirlon Cord. I'm a few chapters from the end of Part 2, and will then be launching into Part 3, the final part of The Uirlon Cord. So I'm doing plot reorganization for Part 3 and there are several plot threads I'm bolstering and building up.

Things were looking bright and rosy in Part 1 for the good guys in comparison with what's going to be happening in Part 3. Part 2 upped the tension, and Part 3 will do it again. The politics aren't looking nice either, except on a very outward facade. The good guys' country is getting infiltrated and corrupted at the core.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by Lief Erikson
Actually . . . I just finished reading it all. It sounds interesting, and definitely has potential. How far have you gotten into the story itself, so far? Or are you still only at the plotting stage?

ooh, you read it, yay! Thanks!
Well, I've definitely started some writing. I have about fifty pages of the main plot of. . .well, what will probably end up being Book Two: In Which the Former Service Slayer has been Turned and now has to Adjust and Deal with Politics. We've done some writing of the other bits, but not much. The big stuff with the Council trying to take over the world is still in the plotting stage.

[Lief Erikson]

I have one question. If the different deities or powerful beings are all on different planes from each other, and yet their worlds can interact on a more minor level, how do the deities affect the world? For example, if there's one being that is very powerful and high up in its plane, what kind of an affect would it have if it chose to attempt to exert its authority on something in the world?

Although perhaps a response to this post would be better placed in the magic topic.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Well, since I consider this to be a majorly topic, I'll keep my reply here. The politics of inter-planar interaction... Though I suppose we might have to move the discussion at some point. Anyway. To answer your question...hmm.

To be honest, I haven't given much thought to that possibility. So I'm going to give you a bit of a cop-out answer, and say, deities, at this point in time, no longer affect the world as a whole in any major way. This is due in part to the lack of belief and worship they get now, which weakens their power considerably. However, certain religions still have their worshippers, making the possibility of influence more likely. However, the another reason for their lack of interference in the world is due to the way different cultures have become so mixed up now that it is hard to have an effect on anything without someone else noticing. It makes things rather complicated. For example, say a pagan like myself were to make a sacrifice to the Morrigan in hopes of divine interference in my wish for vengeance on an enemy. Were she to help in anything but a very minor, un-flahsy way, someone is sure to notice, and then things get complicated, because there are issues of doubt and non-believers, and that just tends to give the gods a headache. And then people might get into experimenting and science, and isn't that a big bother. Ever since the end of the Dark Ages, the sort of divine intervention stuff has become a lot more complicated. I don't think the gods are too happy about it, but who am I to say how the gods feel? So, the gods stick to very minor interference, that won't get noticed. Besides, they like blind faith and most gods don't want to have to do something big and flashy to get the attention and faith of their worshippers.

I hope this has made at least a little sense. It's because of the general lack of intervention nowadays that allows these gods to all exist on their own planes--planes that do overlap a lot with our world, though. Hmm. I hope that wasn't too confusing an answer...

[Baby-K]

Originally posted by Anglorfin
If I am going to write fiction i find it very easy to incoporate politics, and even easier to incorporate prejudice and racism. What I use politics for is basically just racism on a larger scale. Aspects of racism in fantasy for me might explain a highway robbery, or a tavern brawl. My politics do the same thing basically.

One of the things i have been fascinated with is cultural studies. I love reading books about social philosophy. All that stuff about mob mentality, culture clash, social taboos, religion vs. state, is just another way of saying the word "politics". What makes any book on this subject so interesting is that politics is a field that will never become dated. It is going to be around for as long as humans exist so it's ideas and themes will be relevant to anyone no matter what.

I don't necessarily agree that it would be easy to incorporate politics into your writing and especially not aspects such as racism and prejudice. It's easy to define the concept, I think it's accepted that most people would know what racism is, or at least have a vague idea. It becomes harder when you have to delve into the motivations for the racism (and IMO it would be important as part of character development). It's also touchy when you have to consider what would be considered racist to some & not to others - to me you have to have sound (if not first hand) knowledge of this subject to be able to incorporate it into writing and make it plausable.

I do agree with you that politics will never become dated, the politics in any writers works would most likely be a reflection of their own or sometimes public reaction to current events and since people's perceptions etc differ so vastly you will most definitely have different writers portraying the same events in completely opposing ways. This is what keeps politics in writing alive. The thing writers should take care not to do is 'overkill' - IMO a book should never be written with the sole intention of making a political statement, a clever writer will let the storyline & characters make the statement without a conscious effort.

Anglorfin - I'd love to see some of the examples you mentioned, of how you have incorporated racism etc into your writing, it sounds very interesting

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Eruviel Greenleaf
Right, I can't imagine anyone wanting to read all of what I just wrote...got a little carried away there...heh...

Of course I did. How can I expect others to read and reply to my stuff, if I don't do the same?

'Tis quite interesting, and sounds Very Complicated Indeed. But then, politics are...

So then you're a Pagan?

You're not alone anymore, Coney!

Nice to see you here, K.

[Baby-K]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Nice to see you here, K.

Even I get tempted to use my brain every now & again Just wait 'til I muster up the courage to join the LotR and Sil threads

(nice to be here anyway, 'tis a very interesting thread )

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Of course I did. How can I expect others to read and reply to my stuff, if I don't do the same?

'Tis quite interesting, and sounds Very Complicated Indeed. But then, politics are...

So then you're a Pagan?

You're not alone anymore, Coney!

Oh, goody, people actually read my long, drawn-out descriptions that I get really carried away with! heheh
Demon politics are just lovely, aren't they? And those are just the Lesser Demons. . .but of course, they do tend to be nastier, as they are a little. . .petty, when it comes to grabbing power.

Yep, I am Pagan. Well, at least that's the best way to describe my huge assortment of beliefs. I celebrate the Wiccan sabbats, but I'm not quite that much into Goddess-worship.
*waves to Coney*

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Good, now Coney's not the only one to answer my questions about Paganism. I got the feeling he felt rather overwhelmed... Mayhap curiosity almost killed the rabbit...

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Well, I'll be glad to answer any questions you might have, though I can't guaruntee the quality of the answers But hey, if Coney's feeling overwhelmed with questions, I'm glad to help.

[Anglorfin]

Originally posted by Baby-K

Anglorfin - I'd love to see some of the examples you mentioned, of how you have incorporated racism etc into your writing, it sounds very interesting

Sorry baby-K. Like you I visit this board once in a blue moon
So forgive me if I am late responding to this. Anyway what I find most easy to do with politics is create a kind of "edging conflict". that is, it's not exactly the central antagonistic idea, nor does it have to specifically deal with the true antagonist. I like using politics as a sort of sidelined frustration. Just like in everyday life, we have bigger problems than paying taxes, but the taxes are still enough to annoy us and put us on edge.

Unfortunately I have never progressed for enough in my own story writing to actually put what I say on paper, as a story with any type of internal political structure would take a bit of time and writing before it starts to become intelligable on the analytical level. But politics within the story is easy enough to handle. Taken that everybody understand the concept of racism, it is easy for people to understand why two different kingdoms might hate each other. Why there might be strife between classes in a somewhat feudal society. If there is a war in a book (just as in real life) you can be assured that there is a political reason behind it. I just think it is interesting to explore the political side of it and not just the whole "adventure" side which at this point has almost been done to death with very little creativity anymore.

With politics you can get creative. Even making up different categories of government for different nations. The way the government is set up might explain why the hero had to work all his life on a farm, or as a slave or something. It has always been a fantasy of mine to write a hero story whose main character isn't a slave or a farmer but a noble or a priest or something. Everybody always writes about the common soldier who rose the ranks to become a hero. What about the general who served his lord by getting low and dirty for a while?

The only problem with interjecting politics into a story is that it has a chance of becoming boring if the politics are not directly influencing the storyline. Just randomly throwing politics for the sake of giving your own political views is a bad idea because it will only serve to alienate most of the audience.