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06-10-2002, 11:12 PM | #21 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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Well, a merry spirit, and the witch king!? Jekyll and Hyde maybe, I don't know, I don't think so Turkey Walker's more like it
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06-11-2002, 04:06 PM | #22 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
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My theory is that this writer wanted to make a sequel to his children's book and proposed to his editor that he include the character from a children's rhyme he had made up years before for his children. (He wrote something like this in a letter: "Do you think old Bombadil, the spirit of the Oxford countryside, would make a good character for my book?")
The Bombadil character was based on this doll one of the boys got from an elder aunt and another of the boys tried to flush down the toilet. The writer made up the rhyme to cheer up the young lad. In the rhyme, this oddly dressed doll explored some of the places this writer took his children on the weekends, like Wayland's Smithy and the surrounding forest. Scary places for children, but the singing of the doll character makes it safe. So for his sequel, he at first was going to have the little character from the first children's story get married and have a son who inherited the tricky little ring he had found, but the darn character just couldn't bring himself to let a woman into his tidy little world. So he adopted this tike, gave him his posessions, and went back to the "last homely home". (Note, this writer had an earlier character who went to some cottage and lived with the little people and listened to their stories, which he never published, so it was a simple device to have the previous character do it instead.) So the new character and a group of his pals have to get away from some weird dark riders who sniff the air looking for the original character's treasure. They decide to go where these Riders least expect them to go, into the realm of this children's poem from ten years before. Then the writer gets to re-use the characters and settings of the children's poem. This also buys the writer time to think up how exactly he wants the sequel to develop. Soon, the old stories from the Cottage are beginning to merge into the plot of the new book. The Riders become the nine kings, and the neat little trick ring becomes the One Ring, and, by the time they leave the Old Forest and seek the old grey wizard at the agreed-upon meeting place, all the plot is clear in the writer's mind. It has changed from a children's book to a book for adults. But there's one thing - the characters from the children's poem don't fit into the stories from the Cottage, which is now the real history of the world. But he doesn't mind. It was fun to write (or re-write), so he leaves them in. The sequel becomes greater than the original, stretches over six books, published as three, and is called one of the masterpieces of the twentieth century. Over the years people point out this inconguity about the children's poem character, and the writer just says something like, "Don't you think in fantasy that some things don't have to make sense?" And every theory put forth by every fan in any letter, that he is a secret Maiar, etc, is dismissed by the writer. And secretly, as fans continue to argue about the true nature of this being, the writer would smile and be glad that he created an enigma that would keep his books on people's minds. Because, if people think long enough and hard enough about Tom Bombadil, someday they might GET what the writer was saying with him. Just think about the phrase Goldberry says, "He just IS!" He lives in the moment. Who he WAS is irrelevant to the story. But who he really WAS is a character from a previous unpublished piece that got to participate in an epic because the writer liked him. That's my theory.
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cya Last edited by Elfhelm : 06-11-2002 at 04:21 PM. |
06-11-2002, 06:15 PM | #23 | |
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06-11-2002, 07:15 PM | #24 | |
Númenorean
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Quote:
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06-11-2002, 08:10 PM | #25 | |
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Tom said
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06-11-2002, 08:35 PM | #26 |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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If the is a "double identity" then why not Gandalf as Tom Bombadil?
They are never seen together. Gandalf, when visiting Tom B. after the war, goes alone,; he may be going home to pick up a few things. Gandalf enjoyed the Hobbits and spent a good deal of time with them. Maybe like Aule, he created the hobbits, and used the old forest to be near them without being discovered, so he could move about freely. The witchking theory doesn't work as he could have easily taken the ring and walked away from the unarmed hobbits.
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06-12-2002, 01:15 AM | #27 | |
the Shrike
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06-12-2002, 01:22 AM | #28 |
Númenorean
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yea..but neither does the witch king and tom..
the witch king doesnt look like anything..hes invisible
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06-12-2002, 01:50 AM | #29 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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Quote:
As for what I really think, I agree with the Tolkien being sentimental about the Tom B. character and liking the role he plays in LotR. He's an anomaly, because the author can defy his self created reality. We've been spoiled by his deep histories and backround work, so we expect that there should be a answer for everything. It is a good thing that he broke the ridged framework of his complex world once in a while.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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06-12-2002, 01:11 PM | #30 |
Númenorean
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mebbe he did for years and years later people could discuss Tom Bombadil on the internet? :P
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06-12-2002, 01:14 PM | #31 |
Mootis per forum
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i don't want to open a new thread about Bombadill, so i'm putting here my question:
has anybody read something about the background of Tom's names such as Forn or Orald? most names in Tolkien have meaning links with other words...
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06-12-2002, 02:23 PM | #32 |
Hobbit
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I read in a Tolkien biography that Tolkien put
Bombadil and Treebeard into the story to please his children. They had requested Bombadil because Tolkien used to tell them stories about him and Treebeard because one of the boys thought it would be neat to have a talking tree. He does add an air of mystery, but he seems wholesome to me, not at all like a witchking. Maybe he is a representation of innocence and Edenic bliss.
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06-12-2002, 08:27 PM | #33 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
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You know, Gildor. I think you have a point there. Which biography?
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cya |
06-12-2002, 10:51 PM | #34 |
Hobbit
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I think it came out of one I ordered for my Junior High students called, Tolkien, Master Storyteller, but it could have been in a magazine article. I'll look for it. At school anytime anyone finds an article about Tolkien, Chesterton, or Lewis, they bring it to me. This year seems to have been a great one for Tolkien articles...thanks to the movie.
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Yet such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere. |
06-13-2002, 06:52 PM | #35 |
Sapling
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One of the best theories I've heard is that hes Tolkien. The Ring doesn't affect him ( he made it up after all), he never really takes part in the story, he commands Old Man Willow and the Barrow-wights (They're his creations)... Theres some other stuff I don't remember from our pre-movie discussions.
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06-14-2002, 11:52 PM | #36 |
Elf Lord
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I like bmilder's theory, that Tom is Iluvitar...which is kind-of like him being Tolkien. See this thread
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Ringbearer Hide Witch, hide! The Good Folks come to burn thee! Their keen enjoyment hid behind A Gothic mask of duty! Last edited by ringbearer : 06-14-2002 at 11:53 PM. |
06-16-2002, 09:13 AM | #37 |
Hobbit
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Biography
I was wrong. The biography I was thinking of--JRR Tolkien, Mythmaker, doesn't discuss TB or TB--(Treebeard or Tom Bombadil)so it must have been from a magazine article. In any event, it appears that the author was off base with his/her assumptions. I checked out a book of Tolkiens letters, read it, tried to find support for the theory, and gave up. T. does say a lot about the nature of the two TBs and why he put them in, but nothing about pleasing his children. Oh well, it was a good theory. "Excuse me for posting without checking my facts," Gildor said, and looked somewhat abashed.
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Yet such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere. |
06-17-2002, 09:11 PM | #38 |
Elven Warrior
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Tolkine said the Illuvater never appered in ME.
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06-19-2002, 12:58 AM | #39 |
Slacker
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"Tell me, if my asking does not seem foolish, who is Tom Bombadil?"
"He is," said Goldberry... My opinions about Tom might be posted later if I feel like it.
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06-20-2002, 09:15 PM | #40 |
Elf Lord
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I read an interesting theory about Tom representing the reader. I think you can find it at http://www.tolkien.cro.net/else/bbeier.html
I hope that works right.
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