07-24-2004, 03:22 PM | #21 | |
the Shrike
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You're my new favourite person! Be afraid... be very afraid.... Read them! Read them all! Or I'll kick you in the goulies.
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07-24-2004, 04:23 PM | #22 | |
Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001
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Heh, yes I read them. Like I said not all of them because they started being a chore to read... I enjoyed it untill everyone was a Super God who could kill anyone with a look. Plus it was kind of sad about Paul . And I hated Leto. Little #($%(# . |
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10-23-2004, 01:10 PM | #23 | |
Elentári
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11-28-2004, 01:04 AM | #24 |
Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001
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Oh man. That one chapter where Rand is doing the thing to Saidin and Nyn is helping him (dun wanna give the plot away for any who haven't read it...) but man... that battle was THE MOSTEST TOTALLY WICKED THING EVER!!!!!!!!ONEONEONEONEONE!!!1
That is my fav. chapter from ANY book. |
11-28-2004, 03:47 AM | #25 | |
Elf Lord
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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12-05-2004, 08:40 AM | #26 |
Elentári
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That was a stunning part, but my fav was where they fixed the weather. That whole chapter was stunning!
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12-05-2004, 02:59 PM | #27 |
Fëanorophobic
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One of the parts that gave me goosebumps in the Path of Daggers: when Rand is seized by madness and shouts: "I do not fear you Shai'tan! I am the storm!"
I haven't got to reading book 9 yet, so that will have to be my favorite WOT quote for the moment Btw, did you guys know that Shai'tan is the Arabic word for Satan? |
12-09-2004, 03:32 PM | #28 |
Elentári
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Enjoy book 9. It was my favourite by far. So much is going to happen in there
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12-09-2004, 03:39 PM | #29 |
Fëanorophobic
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Is any of you familiar with Nietzsche's idea of Übermensch?
We've been studying about it in English class. Don't you think a tavere'n is an Übermensch? |
12-09-2004, 03:43 PM | #30 |
Elentári
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Don't think i've heard of it. what is an Übermensch? Apart from being kind of like tavere'n , that is.
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12-09-2004, 07:31 PM | #31 |
avocatus diaboli
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A neat idea, Beren. There's an article about the meaning of Übermensch here. I guess the word means "Superhuman" and basically describes someone who has broken away from God and conventions and has to create his own new moral ideas. Do I have it right, Beren? I haven't studies Nietzsche yet, though I find his ideas to be fascinating...
To me, the ideas of tavere'n and Übermensch seem somewhat different. The only similarity IMHO is that both seem to "make their own fate," so to speak, though I'm not quite sure if this is completely true for tavere'n, the definition of which I always took to mean someone around whom many fates are woven. Does that make sense? I don't have the books at hand... As for my favourite part, I liked it when Nynaeve finally broke through her block and was able to use Saidar. Though Rand cleaning Saidin was incredible too... And, well, a lot of parts...
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12-10-2004, 04:24 AM | #32 | |
Fëanorophobic
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Yes, you got it right (at least as far as I understand it). But the thing is, we're discussing the idea of Übermensch in relation to a novel called Demian by Herman Hesse. Have you read it? This novel seems to suggest, among other things, that people who enjoy the qualities of Übermensch can impose their will on others. So that's what basically reminded me of taver'en. |
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12-10-2004, 01:19 PM | #33 |
avocatus diaboli
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No, I haven't read it. Hm... that seems a bit closer.
Do you mean unconsciously or consciously imposing their will upon others? When I think of tavere'n, imposing one's will does not come to mind, exactly. It seems more like a person around whom other fates are woven, instead of a person who can bind other fates to them. Unconsciously, perhaps this is imposing will... but I'm not sure.
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~ I have heard the languages of apocalypse and now I shall embrace the silence ~
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12-10-2004, 02:01 PM | #34 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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12-10-2004, 03:07 PM | #35 |
Fëanorophobic
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Well that novel (Demian) seems to suggest that it is done consciously, through the exercise of one's will power. However, it might be a purely symbolic thing. The whole novel could be interpreted as an allegory, as far as I'm concerned. But there's this quote from it that reminded me so much of tavere'n. The novel is set before WWI. And this Übermensch (who also seems to be endowed of foresight) foretells a great conflict to come and tells his friend that after the war, people will seek new identities and shed off their old ideals and then it would be up to them (the Übermensches ) to build this new world; he tells him:
"The will of the future will gather around us". That sounds just like a tavere'n to me, changing the course of history and all that. By the way, according to my English teacher, Nietzsche considered the following people as Übermensch: -Jesus -Napoleon -Alexander the Great etc... IOW, great leaders. But it seems to me that RJ would also call these people tavere'n: people who shaped their fate rather than their fate them. When it comes to the matter of being aware of doing that, I have no point to make |
12-10-2004, 04:11 PM | #36 | |
avocatus diaboli
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Oh, I agree. Those people would definitely be ta'veren, according to the definition of the word (which I finally looked up ):
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However, because someone could be considered both ta'veren and Übermensch does not mean that the two words are synonyms for each other. Also, I don't believe (now seeing the true definition ) that ta'veren are definitely able to shape their own fate... If anything, it seems to me that they would have less say in their destiny than most, if fate is so dependent upon them.
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~ I have heard the languages of apocalypse and now I shall embrace the silence ~
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12-10-2004, 04:23 PM | #37 |
Elentári
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Ta'veren can't control their own fate. Rand knew that and stopped fighting it. He also wanted Mat (I think) to realise it, for his own sake - that it is imposible to fight his fate and thus he should just go with the flow.
I don't believe they can control other's fates willingly either. and yes, by what I hear of an Übermensch, I do believe they are very closely related. |
01-09-2005, 04:16 PM | #38 |
The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles
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Now I have started on book six. And the beginning is very good, a short summary from all the main characters. I hope it is as good as you people say, and I will tell you what I think when I have finished
besides, Beren 3000, you asked for the things I liked best in the books, and I remembered I really enjoied it when Mat beat GAwyn and Galhad in with a quarter staff in the third book, maybe. or was it the fourth? anyway, I loved that.
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01-10-2005, 03:26 AM | #39 |
Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001
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It was the third *is rereading them*
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01-10-2005, 09:28 AM | #40 |
The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles
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ok.
How far have you got rereading?
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