North American Relations

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

i'm not a part of the EU, i can't answer that, although i would quite happily admit any european nation should they wish, providing they are not a repressive toalitarian dictatorship, and i would have thought the purpose of any trade agreement ought to be to increase trade between other nations, especially poorer nations, but what do i know? as is quite obvious by your derogatory statements toward me

Well - read your statement - if you want to be deragatory - I'll be deragatory right back. NAFTA's purpose was to create a free trading area between Mexico and Canada. And if you think Mexico is rich - damn you are living with your head in the sand or you absolutely know zero about North America. if we were only going to include rich countries - it would only be between the US and Canada then. Also - the carribean islands don't produce anything - they don't produce manufactured goods nor do they have any source of raw material - which is the whole purpose of NAFTA.

Before giving a speech about how the US has blocked these countires because they're poor - maybe you should do some damn research on it.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

a) i said turkey was not in europe to make a point, nothing more, i obviously know that a small (very small) part of that state is in europe, as is the same with russia (and, debatebly) georgia/armenia/azerbaijan - being west of the Urals)

WQell you several times said it was not in Europe. YOu did not indicate that ANY part of was IN Europe. As such - it stil has a right to be part of the EU - or to be considered European - just like Russia is considered European.

and b) how could EU be a member of EFTA, the EU is not a state in it's own right, merely a collection of european countries sharing the same primary goals, which is why the EEC pre-existed

It is a state in it's own right - jus lijke US is. We don't have an EU ambassafor in Brussels for the hell of it you know. It has a president, supreme court, a parliament. It is NOT like the UN or like NATO. So yes - the EU can belong to the EFTA.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

i said turkey was not in europe ONCE, not several times, and thus was to make a point, nowt more than that, and the eu is not a state, i cant go on holiday to another part of the union w/o a passport, par example, just as i cant visit america, china or australia without a passport - i live in the united kingdom, not the united states of europe - to quote your fine self, maybe you should do some damn research on it.

[jerseydevil]

BTW LCoO - do you know how old NAFTA is? You conveniently - in your post - said it was Bush's fault that the other countries aren't part of NAFTA. Is Bush the scapegoat for everything that Europeans don't like about America? Or is he the only thing that Europeans know about when it comes to america?

I would also - as a side thing - like to know who the US annexed while Bush has been in office?

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

i didnt say NAFTA came about whilst bush was in office
learn to read posts correctly before making rambling arguements
and while you do, Ungoliant is spelt with a U, not an O, or is this just another way in which American English is different from English English, constantly leaving out U's

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

who has US annexed since bush has been in office?
so far afghanistan and iraq
whos next north korea? iran? france?

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

i said turkey was not in europe ONCE, not several times, and thus was to make a point, nowt more than that, and the eu is not a state, i cant go on holiday to another part of the union w/o a passport, par example

Yes you can now. You also stated that ypu don't live in the EU - yet if you don't live in the EU - then how can you make the statement - "go on holiday to ANOTHER part of the Union". So are you or are not living in a country which is part of the EU?

Also - we haven't had to have passports to travel throughout North America - whether it's Mexico, Canada or any of the Carribean Islands - does that mean that North America is a "state". It's one of the things that peple in Europe don't realize when they say that Americans don't travel outside of the US - it's because we don't need a passport to go anywhere. Looking at stats - most Europeans don't go outside of Europe for vacation.

, just as i cant visit america, china or australia without a passport - i live in the united kingdom, not the united states of europe - to quote your fine self, maybe you should do some damn research on it.

Sorry - the UK is part of the EU and for your information - you do not need a Passport to go to France, germany, etc. You seem to be lacking in your knownledge of where your country stands. The only thing is - the UK has not adopted the Euro yet. It's funny though - you said you weren't part of the EU - yet you are because you live in the UK.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

who has US annexed since bush has been in office?
so far afghanistan and iraq
whos next north korea? iran? france?

We haven't annexed them at all. Have we annexed Bosnia and Serbia and Kosovo? Give me a break.

As for arguing about afganistan - you are way out of line there - especially since it WAS directly involved wqith 9/11. Or do you just happen to coveniently forget that.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

actually i can only visit ireland w/o a passport,
as an example i will cite my most recent experience thereof:
my a-level archaeology group has a trip to italy in february
we have been told to check that our passports are up to date,
so why the hell would i need a passport if i dont need a passport, so to speak?

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

We haven't annexed them at all. Have we annexed Bosnia and Serbia and Kosovo? Give me a break.

As for arguing about afganistan - you are way out of line there - especially since it WAS directly involved wqith 9/11. Or do you just happen to coveniently forget that.

whether afghanistan waas directly involved with 11th of september is neither here nor there, sure the taliban had to be removed from power, but there are ways to do things, war is not, IMHO, one of them, and neither is etting up gov'ts by the invading country, we saw that happen after the second world war behind te iron curtain, never heard of satellite states/puppet gov'ts?

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

i didnt say NAFTA came about whilst bush was in office
learn to read posts correctly before making rambling arguements

Sorry - you did imply that with your response to my post regarding that the Carribean Islands and others don't have the trade to be part of NAFTA. let me refresh your memory here....

oh, so if you're poor it means usa will ignore you?
i guess that must be true with bush in power, his idea of poor
is either ignore or invadecough*annexe*cough, it would seem

So what does Bush have to do with that? You said "that must be true with BUSH in power". As I said - NAFTA has been around for a very long long time.

Also - I wouldn't start with saying Bush ignores poor countries - because it was BUSH who first decalred Darfur a genecide - while Europe was still debating.

and while you do, Ungoliant is spelt with a U, not an O, or is this just another way in which American English is different from English English, constantly leaving out U's

It was a damn misspelling for your information. But hey - you can be arrogant to me all you want - and I'll be arrogant right back at you.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

misspelt twice in one thread, in one day?
and i said if you will read once more, that it will stay that way with bush in power, not that it started with him in power
i'm really not in the mood for getting to a long winded arguement on how better america is than britain/europe, so i will take my leave sir!

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

whether afghanistan waas directly involved with 11th of september is neither here nor there, sure the taliban had to be removed from power, but there are ways to do things, war is not,

War is sometiemw necessary. Ahd it was. I don't care if you disagree really. You are rather arrogant to bring up the evil us attacking Afganistan and getting on the little soap box to declare war as wrong - but then Europe was awash in war 50 years ago. I guess war wasn't the answer with Hitler either.

IMHO, one of them, and neither is etting up gov'ts by the invading country, we saw that happen after the second world war behind te iron curtain, never heard of satellite states/puppet gov'ts?

Afganistan had free elections. it had international observers. I guess under your senario - you would descirbe Germany and Japan as puppet governments to the US - because WE set them back up and WE STILL have troops in both countries. You can even go with Bosnia, Kosovo and Serbia and I guess they're a puppet government to the EU. We turned over the reigns to Europe after we took care of the problem for you. I guess they're you little pupppet government now.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

sorry, i am not in government, i cant pull troops out of countries, until then i suppose i shall have to leave it as it is, but that doesn't mean i have to agree with it thats what elections are for, although i know the system works differently in your fair land

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

misspelt twice in one thread, in one day?
and i said if you will read once more, that it will stay that way with bush in power, not that it started with him in power

Maybe I'm blind - can pleae show me where you said "will stay that way with Bush" Here is the quote again....

oh, so if you're poor it means usa will ignore you?
i guess that must be true with bush in power, his idea of poor
is either ignore

i'm really not in the mood for getting to a long winded arguement on how better america is than britain/europe, so i will take my leave sir!

Might I remind you that YOU are the one that started that little zrguemtn - my dear sir. Instead of discussing NAFTA - you wanted to critize the US - as is the new European pasttime it seems.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

sorry, i am not in government, i cant pull troops out of countries, until then i suppose i shall have to leave it as it is, but that doesn't mean i have to agree with it thats what elections are for, although i know the system works differently in your fair land

If Americans felt it was important for us to get out - then Bush wouldn't have been elected. But you see - people in the US still support Bush for the most part.

But as this has nothing to do with NAFTA - I suggest we get back on topic then. You can bitch about the US in one of the other many threads.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

actually i can only visit ireland w/o a passport,
as an example i will cite my most recent experience thereof:
my a-level archaeology group has a trip to italy in february
we have been told to check that our passports are up to date,
so why the hell would i need a passport if i dont need a passport, so to speak?

The UK is one of the few countries who haven't gone with the no-passport in the EU - most other states you don't have a passport -- you just need id - just like in North America....

There are no longer any frontier controls at the borders between most EU countries. This is thanks to the so-called Schengen agreement which is part of EU law. The Schengen rules remove all internal border controls but put in place effective controls at the external borders of the EU and introduce a common visa policy. All the old EU countries are Schengen members, except Ireland and the United Kingdom. The new member states do not yet fully participate in Schengen. This means that you need a valid passport for travel to Ireland, the United Kingdom and the new member states, or an ID card if you are an EU national. Although they do not belong to the EU, Norway and Iceland are part of the Schengen area.

Always carry a valid passport or ID card when travelling in the EU because you may be required to prove your identity. If public order or national security so require, checks at the internal borders may be carried out for a limited period. When crossing the external borders of the EU everyone needs a valid passport.

Make sure that any children travelling with you either have their own passport or ID card or are registered on yours.

I just have to have my drivers license to travel anywhere in North America - including when flying - which I have done also.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

But as this has nothing to do with NAFTA - I suggest we get back on topic then.

Yes, I would suggest that too.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Yes, I would suggest that too.

A little late there. This was like 12 hours ago.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Yes, I would suggest that too.

sorry, earniel, my comparison turned into an arguement between me and JD,
as people know this isnt my way,
i extend a hand in friendship, or at least reconciliation, to JD

and back on topic...
so, JD, care to talk me through the NAFTA, then?