Entwives in Old Forest? - Page 2

Wulažg · 04-29-2002, 04:46 PM

Well we assumed that since the Uruk-hai were bred into being that so did the Olog-hai. Which presented a problem. Besides, orcs were corrupted elves but that doesn't mean that there are no elves around.

Elfhelm · 04-29-2002, 05:27 PM

That's cool, but I still think there should be a huge distinction between our assumptions and what is canon. JRRT said:

"Some, of course, may have fled east, or even have become enslaved: tyrants even in such tales must have an economic and agricultural background to their soldiers and metal-workers. If any survived so, they would indeed be far estranged from the Ents, and any rapprochement would be difficult -- unless experience of industrialised and militarised agriculture had made them a little more anarchic. I hope so. I don't know. "

Do you see any reference to crossbreeding with trolls? Slave labor, yes. Estranged, yes. Beyond rapprochement, maybe. But I see no basis for this assumption.

The rational given was that the Olog-hai appeared around Southern Mirkwood at the end of the third age. But it was the end of the second age when the entwives fled the Brown Lands.

I'm sure it made great sense to the authors of Iron Crown Enterprises role playing games, but it isn't Tolkien, IMHO.

Faramir · 08-01-2002, 04:41 PM

It also talks about trees that could move in the old forest. It was probably one of those. But it is also possible it was an Ent or an Entwife. I think all the Entwives left Middle-Earth.

BeardofPants · 08-01-2002, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Faramir
It also talks about trees that could move in the old forest. It was probably one of those. But it is also possible it was an Ent or an Entwife. I think all the Entwives left Middle-Earth.

I suspect that Old Man Willow et al are huorns that have settled in the old forest. Entwives were overly fond of gardening, so I would guess as someone said earlier, that they found a nice place and settled down.

Lizra · 08-01-2002, 06:55 PM

I was reading a similar thread on another board, the suggestion was thrown out that they sank with Beleriand. There was a place in Beleriand called Fin something (I'd have to look it up) That was also a name given for entwives. This is sad but I like it more than being twisted into evil beings.

Lizra · 08-01-2002, 07:07 PM

OK....This guy said that there was a known entwife named Fimbrethril, and a small forest in Southern Beleriand called Nimbrethil. He thought the similarities in the names suggested a link, perhaps another EW named Nimbrethil.

BeardofPants · 08-01-2002, 07:15 PM

That rather depends on what the root "brethil" means. Be interesting if it actually pertained to his arguments.

Okay, I looked it up, and this is what I got:

brethil I ( brethel ) pl. brethil n. beech, beech-tree, silver birch Ety/352, Ety/376, S/429OS *bretʰil- (BERÉTH)

brethil II pl. of brethil

BeardofPants · 08-01-2002, 08:52 PM

Some more info I dredged up:

Quote:

Tolkien's Letters, number 144:
I think that in fact the Entwives had disappeared for good, being destroyed with their gardens in the War of the Last Alliance (Second Age 3429 - 3441) when Sauron pursued a scorched earth policy and burned their land against the advance of the Allies down the Anduin. They survived only in the ‘agriculture’ transmitted to Men (and Hobbits). Some, of course, may have fled east, or even have become enslaved: tyrants even in such tales must have an economic and agricultural background to their soldiers and metalworkers. If any survived so, they would indeed be far estranged from the Ents, and any rapprochement would be difficult – unless experience of industrialized and militarized agriculture had made them a little more anarchic. I hope so. I don’t know.

Lizra · 08-01-2002, 11:34 PM

Awwwwwwwwww.... well, in my mind after Sam planted the Mallorn, some entwives who had been totally unheard of, began visiting the shire at twilight, to marvel at the Mallorn and the wonderous Gamgee gardens. Hopefully Sam did the right thing and hooked them up with Treebeard. I wonder how that went?!

entss89 · 08-22-2002, 08:26 PM

I THINK THAT TOO.

The Ringbearer · 08-24-2002, 03:32 AM

I think I like that version of events too. I always thought that it was really sad that Treebeard and the other Ents never got to see their wives again. In my mind, Merry or Pippin saw the "walkin' tree" again and found that it was an Entwife, and sent a message to Treebeard like he wanted them to.

Sighhhhhhh....... I love happy endings.......

Lizra · 08-24-2002, 09:18 AM

great! You write it, I'll Illustrate it !

The Ringbearer · 08-27-2002, 09:10 PM

Oooohhh, really? I love writing! O.K. let me think......

RosieCotton · 08-28-2002, 09:39 AM

I like that ending. Happy

. Sam, Merry, and Pippin could take another trip out to Fanghorn. I bet Sam would get along well with the Ents.
Rosie

Helix · 08-28-2002, 05:26 PM

Very cool ending. I like it too.

04-29-2002, 05:27 PM	#22
Elfhelm Marshal of the Eastmark Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,412	That's cool, but I still think there should be a huge distinction between our assumptions and what is canon. JRRT said: "Some, of course, may have fled east, or even have become enslaved: tyrants even in such tales must have an economic and agricultural background to their soldiers and metal-workers. If any survived so, they would indeed be far estranged from the Ents, and any rapprochement would be difficult -- unless experience of industrialised and militarised agriculture had made them a little more anarchic. I hope so. I don't know. " Do you see any reference to crossbreeding with trolls? Slave labor, yes. Estranged, yes. Beyond rapprochement, maybe. But I see no basis for this assumption. The rational given was that the Olog-hai appeared around Southern Mirkwood at the end of the third age. But it was the end of the second age when the entwives fled the Brown Lands. I'm sure it made great sense to the authors of Iron Crown Enterprises role playing games, but it isn't Tolkien, IMHO. __________________ cya

08-01-2002, 04:41 PM	#23
Faramir Elven Warrior Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ithilien Posts: 353	It also talks about trees that could move in the old forest. It was probably one of those. But it is also possible it was an Ent or an Entwife. I think all the Entwives left Middle-Earth. __________________ This is the Window of the Sunset, Henneth Annun, fairest of all the falls of Ithilien, land of many fountains."-Faramir, Chapter IV, The Two Towers ========================== FRODO LIVES!!! ========================== YODA IS DA MAN!!! ========================== I Love Jesus!

08-01-2002, 06:55 PM	#25
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	I was reading a similar thread on another board, the suggestion was thrown out that they sank with Beleriand. There was a place in Beleriand called Fin something (I'd have to look it up) That was also a name given for entwives. This is sad but I like it more than being twisted into evil beings. Last edited by Lizra : 08-01-2002 at 06:56 PM.

08-01-2002, 07:15 PM	#27
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	That rather depends on what the root "brethil" means. Be interesting if it actually pertained to his arguments. Okay, I looked it up, and this is what I got: brethil I ( brethel ) pl. brethil n. beech, beech-tree, silver birch Ety/352, Ety/376, S/429OS bretʰil- (BERÉTH) brethil II pl. of brethil __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords Last edited by BeardofPants : 08-01-2002 at 07:17 PM.*

08-22-2002, 08:26 PM	#30
entss89 lord of the ents Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: nc Posts: 539	HI I THINK THAT TOO.

04-29-2002, 04:46 PM	#21
Wulažg Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 306	Well we assumed that since the Uruk-hai were bred into being that so did the Olog-hai. Which presented a problem. Besides, orcs were corrupted elves but that doesn't mean that there are no elves around.

08-01-2002, 07:07 PM	#26
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	OK....This guy said that there was a known entwife named Fimbrethril, and a small forest in Southern Beleriand called Nimbrethil. He thought the similarities in the names suggested a link, perhaps another EW named Nimbrethil.

08-01-2002, 11:34 PM	#29
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	Awwwwwwwwww.... well, in my mind after Sam planted the Mallorn, some entwives who had been totally unheard of, began visiting the shire at twilight, to marvel at the Mallorn and the wonderous Gamgee gardens. Hopefully Sam did the right thing and hooked them up with Treebeard. I wonder how that went?!

08-24-2002, 03:32 AM	#31
The Ringbearer Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Crickhollow in the summer, and Rivendell in the winter Posts: 397	I think I like that version of events too. I always thought that it was really sad that Treebeard and the other Ents never got to see their wives again. In my mind, Merry or Pippin saw the "walkin' tree" again and found that it was an Entwife, and sent a message to Treebeard like he wanted them to. Sighhhhhhh....... I love happy endings....... __________________ 'Go away, and never come back!!' '......what?' 'But you're a part of this world! Aren't you?' Frodo lives!

08-24-2002, 09:18 AM	#32
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	great! You write it, I'll Illustrate it !

08-27-2002, 09:10 PM	#33
The Ringbearer Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Crickhollow in the summer, and Rivendell in the winter Posts: 397	Oooohhh, really? I love writing! O.K. let me think...... __________________ 'Go away, and never come back!!' '......what?' 'But you're a part of this world! Aren't you?' Frodo lives!

08-28-2002, 09:39 AM	#34
RosieCotton Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Hobbiton...no wait.... Posts: 263	I like that ending. Happy . Sam, Merry, and Pippin could take another trip out to Fanghorn. I bet Sam would get along well with the Ents. Rosie __________________ Fortune rides like the Sun on high With the fox that makes the ravens fly Luck his sould, the lightning his eye He snatches the moons from out of the sky.

08-28-2002, 05:26 PM	#35
Helix Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: School! Posts: 107	Very cool ending. I like it too. __________________ Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo. -Elvish Greeting

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