03-07-2003, 10:51 PM | #21 | |
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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03-07-2003, 10:51 PM | #22 | |
The Buddy Rabbit
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And I thought that monotheism was difficult to grasp |
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03-07-2003, 10:53 PM | #23 |
Quasi Evil
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I had monotheism once but I got better.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
03-07-2003, 10:53 PM | #24 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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If I am correct, a pantheon is the deities worshipped by a specific culture, right? Like Odin, Thor, Freya, etc. are all part of the Norse pantheon, while Ra, Osiris, and Isis are all part of the Egyptian pantheon? Or am I wrong again?
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03-07-2003, 10:54 PM | #25 | |
The Buddy Rabbit
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03-07-2003, 10:55 PM | #26 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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And I thought that Christians were the only ones allowed to be rude.
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03-07-2003, 10:59 PM | #27 | |
The Buddy Rabbit
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*shrugs*..such is the nature of Paganism, deny none.....believe in those which deserve it. |
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03-07-2003, 11:04 PM | #28 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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If you want to read a really good fantasy series that revolves around the Middle Ages and the church - read the Deryni Series by Katherine Kurtz.
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03-07-2003, 11:20 PM | #29 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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I've read a few of those. Good books.
Of course, I meant the old Norse and old Egyptian pantheons. I wasn't too far off on that, was I? Of course, if anyone else has any (non-offensive) questions regarding a religion, feel free to jump in! P.S. Congrulations, Gwaimir Windgem, you've done it again! *bops self*
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03-07-2003, 11:59 PM | #30 | |
Elven Warrior
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03-08-2003, 12:17 AM | #31 |
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I don't think most Jew's consider Jesus to be a prophet. There is no "official" Jewish position on this I think. I'm definately not an expert though. A lot completely deny his existance - in temple the name Jesus is not said at all or in hewbrew school.....not taught as a prophet. I know that Islam considers him to be a prophet, again I don't think Judiasm does. I could be wrong. I don't care too much either
With absolutely no proof or any real research, my personal opinion is that there was some guy named Jesus but he was just a guy Kind of like the movie "The life of Brian" There have been many false messiahs in our history...many jews believe Jesus is one of them. Very practical idea To repeat myself, to my knowledge Jesus is NOT considered a prophet. I guess just either some ordinary guy false messiah or he did not exist are the most common viewpoints. No official view....we are allowed to form our own opinions. Jews for Jesus is completely rediculous imo. It is just a branch of Christianity. Not that I know anything about them, but Jews that believe that Jesus existed and that he is the messiah aren't really Jews.
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03-08-2003, 12:25 AM | #32 | |
Quasi Evil
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03-08-2003, 12:50 AM | #33 | |
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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03-08-2003, 01:31 AM | #34 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Not being Catholic, I don't know for sure about this, but here's my attempt:
The Pope: The Head of the Roman Catholic Church, the Bishop of Rome, and the Vicar of Christ. The highest (excluding divine) spiritual authority. Cardinals: A council of Catholic clergy who hold meetings in Rome, and choose the next Pope. I'm less sure about this one. Priest: The Priest is, I believe, the lowest rank of ordained minister in the Catholic Church, and by far the most common. Catholics, confirmation/correction?
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03-08-2003, 09:52 AM | #35 |
Quasi Evil
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Ok Coney Ive been poking around and Ive come to the conclusion that basically Paganism refers to essentially ancient religions that predate the big monotheistic religions while Neo-Paganism is essentially Paganism adopted in a modern age. Otherwise I cant see any difference. The only true Paganism left in the world are in tribal societies that long predate modern times like Native Americans or Aboriginees or any indiginous groups still hanging on to their old way of living and worshiping. Everything else tends to be neo-paganism simply because there was no unbroken and direct connection to an ancient source other then in interpretation. A friend who consideres herself a "Celtic Neo-Pagan" says its impossible for anyone to be a celtic pagan because they are extinct and we have no record of just how they worshiped and just what they believed. All we have is some very old standing stones and such. So some neo-pagans go about worshiping the stones. And incorperating it into their current rituals. So from all this really no one should call themselves pagan since the only true pagans dont realy recognize the word. its not part of their culture or their identity. they basically just see themselves as a people seperate from others. And if thats the case then theres really no point in making the distinction between current "neo-pagans" and current "pagans" at all. Its a little like arguing over whether birds are dinosaurs or not. Well yeah they are but the dinosaurs are all dead so no they arent and it doesnt really matter.
So with all that behind us..... I thought Id try to reaproach Gwaimer's question about paganism (ok he asked about Wiccanism but I consider that just a subset of neo-paganism). Heres an interesting quote from Drawing Down the Moon that I think those of us in the Tolkien community might find interesting: "Most Neo-Pagans sense an aliveness and 'presence' in nature. They are usually polytheists or animists or pantheists, or two or three of these things at once. They share the goal of living in harmony with nature and they tend to view humanity's 'advancement' and seperation from nature as the prime source of alienation. They see ritual as a tool to end that alienation. Most Neo-Pagans look to the old pre-Christian nature religions of Europe, the ecstatic religions, and the mystery traditions as a source of inspiration and nourishment. They gravitate to ancient symbols and ancient myths, to the old polytheistic religions of the Greeks, the Egyptions, the Celts, and the Sumerians. They are reclaiming these sources, transforming them into something new, and adding to them the visions of Robert Graves, even of J. R. R. Tolkien and other writers of science fiction and fantasy, as well as some of the teachings and practices of the remaining aboriginal peoples." ---Drawing Down The Moon, Margot Adler
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03-08-2003, 09:58 AM | #36 |
Quasi Evil
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oh yeah. And speaking of Tolkien, I have a question for all the Christians on the board. Did you come to Tolkiens work through your religion at all? Or was it simply an artistic thing for you? When you read it did you find a verification of your beliefs or at least a strong identity of your christianity in his writings? Its not a mystery that a lot of christians seem to be into Tolkiens writings and we all know he was very devout. But Im just wondering if you guys felt some sort of relgious familiarity when you read his words. Not sure if Im wording this question right really.....
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03-08-2003, 10:19 AM | #37 |
'Sober' Mullet Frosh
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NO !
Jesus is not considered a prophet by Judaism. At best he's a dead reformist rabbi killed with lots of other rather innovative Jews for various goings on (other Jewish rabbis, apochryphally (sp?) died far worse deaths). Jesus gets some "bad press" in the Talmud, not much, but some. I can't give you refrences but I'm sure you could find them. A lot of the sections were censored to avoid having the books burned (for much the same reason lines that can be construed as attacking Christianity were not put in prayer books after a time). Today most Rabbis lean towards the positive interpretation, most would not be so negative towards Christianity and Jesus as some have been in the past. But, while Jesus the man may be connected with Judaism, Jesus as linked to the divine in some way is outside the realm of Jewish thought. Chrisitianity, after all, is diametrically opposed to a few Jewish values, has drastically different views on lots of other things, and looks at the things we both share drastically differently. If you want to find a monotheistic religion that shares a lot with Judaism look at Islam. I don't know that much about it, but from what I know it is far more like Judaism then any type of Christianity.
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03-08-2003, 11:17 AM | #38 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Ok, thanks for your answer to that, markedel. I seemed to remember a Jewish friend of mine saying that he was considered a prophet by Judaism, but I guess I was wrong. Which Jewish values do you consider Christianity to be diametrically opposed to? As for different view, I certainly agree on that. But I'm curious about these values.
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03-08-2003, 11:28 AM | #39 | |
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03-08-2003, 11:30 AM | #40 | |
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