Ronald Reagan has died

[Rían]

There are a ton of documents in the library, but there's also a lot of information on early life, etc. and lots of interesting goodies to look at. A place where history is displayed, not just a library with books.

One of my favorite exhibits is the Gifts from Heads of State section - gifts ranging from the truly exquisite to the truly tacky There's also clothing, such as the clothes they wore to the Inaugurations. Nancy's dresses are so petite! Barbara Bush, the rather stout wife of the first Pres. Bush, once said something along the lines of how Nancy's dresses would fit her - well, at least fit one of her legs!

There's also a bit from the Berlin wall there. IIRC, his gravesite will be pretty close to that.

[Rían]

I've been watching some of the coverage of the events today - the horse with the missing rider is so moving. I think many countries do that.

How much coverage is this getting in other countries? It's been pretty much live most of the day here in California, except when the plane was flying from Pt. Mugu AFB to Andrews AFB.

[jerseydevil]

I just got finished watching it. God Bless America was beautiful and stuff. It was really a great service. I know from talking to Jonathan that CNN International was having it - but I don't think they were having it on their normal stations.

I wish I could go to Washington - it's only a 3 - 4 hour drive from me - but with what you said and the news said about the wait in California - I doubt I would be able to get to see the casket anyway. I imagine that Washington may even be worse.

I'm going to see if ABC might put this out on DVD and see if I can buy it. They had a lot of good information on Reagan and the history of state funerals. This was the first State Funeral since LBJ.

[Insidious Rex]

People have been lined up since 5 this morning. And believe me the traffic here is a nightmare. Best to take it all in on TV.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
People have been lined up since 5 this morning. And believe me the traffic here is a nightmare. Best to take it all in on TV.

yeah - that's what i sort of heard and figured by the news reports. I thought aobut taking the train which would drop me off right at the Capitol Building - but even then I would be in line for probably 8+ hours. Oh well - the TV is nice too and they give a lot of background info and you do get to see a lot more. It would have been really nice to have seen the Funeral Cortege go through though. That was really nice with the 21 fighter jets, the missing man formation and the long procession, and the riderless horse. It was very nice.

[Rían]

It looks like its only about 3 hours now - keep checking it out, JD, it'd be a pretty special thing to go to.

The main problem in California was that they WAY underestimated the number of people that would show up. They doubled the number of busses by Tuesday morning, and the wait went down to 3 hours. Not soon enough to help my husband and bro-in-law, but oh well.

Back when we thought it was going to be 3 hours, I was going to read The Hobbit to the kids in line! But 8 hours was just impossible, and by the time it was down to 3, they were back in school and it just didn't work.

[Radagast]

BBC News did a feature on him. Interesting guy...

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
That was really nice with the 21 fighter jets, the missing man formation and the long procession, and the riderless horse. It was very nice.

It was gorgious. formality and ritual are great things I think. Especially ritual that is so rarely used. The idea that somewhere every detail of this kind of thing is carefully written down and every little detail has a specific meaning is comforting somehow. Forget about the politics of it all, this was a historical event worth taking in. i heard somewhere that the horseless rider thing goes back to roman times (when the emporer or a very high ranking military person would die they would bring their steed along behind the funeral procession then they would slaughter the horse! and THAT goes back to Egytption practices where they believed the possesions of the dignitary (including their horse) would follow them into the after life if they burried them with it). So yer lookin at tradition that directly dates back 5000 years into ancient history. pretty cool stuff...

as for those F-15s... those puppies are LOUD! I live about 10 miles south of Andrews Air Force Base and those suckers went RIGHT over my house. I was in my basement with the TV on and I thought the house was falling apart. They were so low. And the amazing thing is Im hearing them zoom over one after they other. I go run upstairs to look outside. Then go back downstairs just in time to see them on TV. Had to do a double take considering I had just seen them over my house not 20 seconds ago. Talk about fast. I still dont understand why they didnt have some of those based there on September 11.

[Rían]

Are you going to try to get to any ceremonies, IRex? Since you're so close to Andrews, maybe you could watch the procession go by. I think I might take the kids to watch it on its way to the Reagan library on Friday.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
Are you going to try to get to any ceremonies, IRex? Since you're so close to Andrews, maybe you could watch the procession go by. I think I might take the kids to watch it on its way to the Reagan library on Friday.

Well Im not realy close enough that I could see it on that end. They shooed us home early on Wednesday so that we didnt clog downtown with cars and get in the way of the procession. And we have friday off for the same reason (thanks Ronny!). A guy I work with lives right across the street from the Washington Cathedral and hes having guests over to watch the procession from his apartment. They wont let him on the roof though. Understandably so. Im told by some St. Albans contacts that unless you have level 6 clearance documents you arent getting within a softballs throw of that entire block so Ill just check things out from my basement. Crowds are horribly annoying. If this was a Kennedyesque or Kingesque event Id definitely put up with whatever it took but for this I figure Im close enough in my own basement.

[Rían]

Yeah, I know what you mean about the crowds. When the Olympics were in LA, I didn't go to any of the events. Looking back, tho, I wish I would have gone to at least one...

[Radagast]

Let's not rush to carve Reagan's face on Mount Rushmore, agrees Godfrey Hodgson in The Independant. For Starters, the idea he won the Cold War single-handedly, is exaggerated. Though he stood firm, the wheels were already coming off the Soviet Union. His legacy, meanwhile, has in many respects been a negative one. After a decade and a half of gloom, Reagan's sunny confidence was a timely balm for the US. But the mood of euphoria that he created is responsible for the "lone superpower" arrogance in his spiritual heirs in George Bush II's administration.

What many cannot forgive is his insistence that any enemy of communism was a friend of his. This led him to embrace such murderous regimes as the exiled Khmer Rouge government, the Nicarguan "contra" rebels and the Afghan mujahideen. The Reagan years may have been when the Cold War was brought to a draw, but they were also when the dragons teeth of our present conflicts were sown.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Radagast
Let's not rush to carve Reagan's face on Mount Rushmore, agrees Godfrey Hodgson in The Independant. For Starters, the idea he won the Cold War single-handedly, is exaggerated. Though he stood firm, the wheels were already coming off the Soviet Union. His legacy, meanwhile, has in many respects been a negative one. After a decade and a half of gloom, Reagan's sunny confidence was a timely balm for the US. But the mood of euphoria that he created is responsible for the "lone superpower" arrogance in his spiritual heirs in George Bush II's administration.

What many cannot forgive is his insistence that any enemy of communism was a friend of his. This led him to embrace such murderous regimes as the exiled Khmer Rouge government, the Nicarguan "contra" rebels and the Afghan mujahideen. The Reagan years may have been when the Cold War was brought to a draw, but they were also when the dragons teeth of our present conflicts were sown.

Oh - yeah - as if the Independent would give reagan or the US any credit whatsoever. As was mentioned in his funeral - people often want to ignore and deny the great role he played in the downfall of the Soveit Union. I love Margaret Thatcher's speech. Too bad she wasn't well enough to give it live - but it was very nice and very true all the same.

As for carving his face in Mount Rushmore - that is OUR decision as Americans - not Britains, not Frances, not Canadas, no one has a say in that other than America.

As for embracing enemies of communism as being a friend of "his" that is not true. Sometimes the enemy of my enemy is my friend. That has been the way of the world for millenium. It was that way during World War II - we supported Stalin during that war - do you think Churchill thought he was his friend or do you think Roosevelt thought Stalin was his friend. I think you know the answer without me telling you.

By the way - I can't beleive you claim the cold war was brought to a draw. So where is the Soviet Union? Oh yeah - half their countries that made up the Soviet Union are now part of the EU. The EU would not have gotten it's latest members if it had NOT been for Ronald Reagan telling it like it was and leading the fight against the Soviet Union in those years.

[Rían]

Radagast, that was not a very kind post to put in a thread like this, which is about the death of a President of the United States that was very well liked by many people here. Look at the faces of the people that stood in line for HOURS to pay their respects to him - you often see tears, and you see elderly military men solemnly saluting.

Could you please start a new thread if you want to discuss any negative aspects about him. I'm sure he has some - after all, he's not perfect, and neither are you - but this isn't the place to discuss them, IMO.

[Radagast]

Sadly, Rian, due to the abominable and frankly intolerable gagging order on political threads I cannot start a new thread.

Let us not be drawn into a state of looking at the past through rose-tinted glasses. Was my post kind? No, nor was it unkind. I did not know the man.

As for Jerseydevil's flippant triumphalism in the downfall of the Soviet Union, of course it was brought to a draw. No one can claim victory, save a hollow one, over rank upon rank of a consistently brutalised people to whose lot it has fallen of the centuries to be ruled by despots, in that over-large and foolish nation. Are the people happier? Possibly. But let us make one thing clear, Jersey, Reagan was not responsible for the downfall of the Union. Economically it was simply not a viable venture. It was through the tireless work of British and American diplomats, infiltrators for decades- Regean was in the right place to claim credit.

[jerseydevil]

so says you. As Rian basically said - start a new thread to bitch.

[Radagast]

I suppose all I can do is smile the wan smile of those trying to make a valid point against insurmountable odds.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Sadly, Rian, due to the abominable and frankly intolerable gagging order on political threads I cannot start a new thread.

Too bad. If people posted to debate instead of posting for the sake of causing problems, there wouldn't be a ban on political discussion. I find the actions of such posters abominable and intolerable.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Radagast
I suppose all I can do is smile the wan smile of those trying to make a valid point against insurmountable odds.

You're point isn't valid - I just choose not to discuss it in this thread. Now if you don't have any remembrances of Reagan - then go start your thread and bitch there. It's not surprising that YOU think he didn't do anything. That is your nature. There are MANY historians who believe that his policies had a DIRECT affect on the downfall of the soviet union.

[Radagast]

I am dealing with it, madam, and this is why I am raising the issue here, in the aptly titled thread. What better time to have a true evaluation of his life, but after his death?

And what I think jerseydevil finds hard to swallow is that the Valiant U.S.A.'s Great Noble Stand Against The 'Evil Empire' is a hollow victory. And that is genuinely what I find sad about jersey, and this is not a flame, just a comment, that he does not concede anything. You hold on to your beliefs like a drowning man clutches a raft, something to guide you through the roaring waves and surf all around you. But, essentally, the raft is just a conveniently placed set of values. Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel...