01-07-2003, 07:21 PM | #21 |
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But they each fought a single dragon, not a whole host of them! Bard shot Smaug from a distance in its weak spot using a magic arrow. Turin didn't meet Galurung squarely on the battlefield either. There was a lot of stealth and trickery involved. Neither encounter could hope to compare with swarms of the things charging ahead at you on a level plain (which was the situation in the War of Wrath).
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Then hate overcame Fëanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying 'Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!' And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all dwellers in Eä. Last edited by Captain Stern : 01-07-2003 at 07:33 PM. |
01-07-2003, 07:28 PM | #22 | |
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01-07-2003, 07:33 PM | #23 |
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To add, I doubt the host sent against Angband, during the War of Wrath, was almost exclusively made up of the Elves of Aman. It does say that Feanor, during his final moments, realised that no power of the Noldor could ever hope to bring down Morgoth's stronghold. So I doubt any force of Eldar, no matter how large, could have done what the Noldor failed to do. There must have been, at least, a large force of Maiar and, perhaps, a few Valar too, for Morgoth had many corrupted maiar under his own command and who better to combat them than the Ainur? Not to mention the fact that it was required to descend into Angband, past Morgoth's most powerful guardians, then find and chain him... Who else but the Valar could have done so?
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Then hate overcame Fëanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying 'Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!' And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all dwellers in Eä. |
01-07-2003, 07:41 PM | #24 | |
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In its death throws, Ancalagon the Black toppled Thangorodrim! Even alone he might have made the Valar pause, but he was backed up with, probably, hundreds of his brothers.
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Then hate overcame Fëanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying 'Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!' And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all dwellers in Eä. |
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01-08-2003, 09:43 AM | #25 | ||
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An Elvish archer should be pretty much better than a man, and they probably had magic arrows too, at least they where made in Valinor. Quote:
And if two lords of men and Elves could downthrow Sauron (the strongest of Morgoth's maiar) with a great army, certainly greater Elvish lords with a many times greater army and Manwe's herald (possibly many other Maiar too) could take down all of them.
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Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle. Last edited by Falagar : 01-08-2003 at 09:46 AM. |
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01-08-2003, 01:58 PM | #26 | ||
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Last edited by Andúril : 01-08-2003 at 02:01 PM. |
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01-08-2003, 04:43 PM | #27 | |||||
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From what I understand, the arrow Bard fired at Smaug was an extremely rare and powerful family heirloom, an heirloom of a noble family of men no less (correct me if I'm wrong). I doubt, having read the Silmarillion, that such arrows were commonplace amongst rank and file elf soldiery. They would have been reserved for Elf Lords, and only some at that. Quote:
But all this is beating about the bush. We know that the Dragons were powerful enough to drive the hosts of the Valar back. It says so in the story. Quote:
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Then hate overcame Fëanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying 'Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!' And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all dwellers in Eä. Last edited by Captain Stern : 01-08-2003 at 04:46 PM. |
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01-08-2003, 04:55 PM | #28 | |
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Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle. Last edited by Falagar : 01-08-2003 at 04:59 PM. |
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01-08-2003, 05:01 PM | #29 | |
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01-08-2003, 06:26 PM | #30 |
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why does everyone asume that sauron is the strongest maiar that there was?
Is the strongest worrior allways the one thats at the battle or can it be the man ploughing the feilds at home is the most intelegent the man making the descisions or writeing poetry? Sauron is only presumed the greatest because his deeds are deemed great but how great were his deads sure he was a master of craft and lore of aule which he used in his making of the rings and bar dur. But sauron as a tactician tended to work through servents as all good leaders do so his power is hard to judge. As for Eonwe i suspect that from time to time the valar can give certain responabilitys to an individual (these probably been granted down from eru himself) Eonwe was probably given the responability to push Morgoth beyond the rhelm of the world in the same way gandalf the white had the power to take away saurmans powers in lord of the rings
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01-09-2003, 02:18 AM | #31 |
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Sauron didn't have the limitations placed upon him that were placed on the five emmisaries, which is probably why he is always assumed to be the strongest. And Gandalf *did* say something to the effect that White is strong, but Black is stronger yet. [gross paraphrase]
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01-09-2003, 10:46 AM | #32 | |
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Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot |
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01-09-2003, 01:52 PM | #33 | |
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Just an unscholarly opinion. |
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01-09-2003, 02:25 PM | #34 |
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That is true. I guess we have to take Gandalf's modesty into account! Afterall, he of all the istari was given the Red Ring.
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01-09-2003, 02:29 PM | #35 | |
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Also, some theorise that Sauron was capitalising on the "magic" that Morgoth instilled into the Land. This would undoubtedly give Sauron an advantage over the other maiar.
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords Last edited by BeardofPants : 01-09-2003 at 02:31 PM. |
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01-24-2003, 12:58 AM | #36 | |
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01-24-2003, 05:10 AM | #37 | |
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01-24-2003, 12:47 PM | #38 |
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Does anyone know why none of the valar or maiar other than Melian had any children. Were they not able to because they naturally didn't have a physical form?
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01-24-2003, 10:41 PM | #39 | |
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01-25-2003, 01:59 PM | #40 | |
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