Rap is not music

[Anglorfin]

Rap =/= Music

Like basically everyone else has said, rap is poetry, and since poetry naturally has a rythm and a scheme to itself I would not call a simple drum beat or little DJ mixed notes in a rap song the "music" because it is already implied by the flow of words.

[Sheeana]

Sure it's music. You only have to listen to songs like "Rappers Delight", "Gangsters Paradise", and "Walk this way", or "My Adidas" () to hear this. Plus, as much as I hate to admit it, Eminem certain some pretty unusual arrangements (via voice, and backing) as well. The problem, as with anything, is that rap has become more commercialised, and in doing so, the genre has been guilty of creating tripe just as the pop industry has been. I mean: can we really even call something like S Club 7, or Steps music? A lot of their stuff is just bassy bits, with them dancing to it. Also, as someone already said, Rock 'n Roll was once considered to be non-music as well. Interesting, cos both styles of music were ripped off black people.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Celebréiel
sheesh. I have to say im a little suprised.
Anywho, while I dont like rap all that much, I would consider it music. I think what every one considers music is totally different and I would love to keep it that way. I like music being kinda open ended...
Sure some rap is really....really stupid and slapped together but I think to say something like 'rap is not music' is a pretty harsh to rappers out there that are genuinely trying to make good music and putting their thoughts into a musical form they like...er...yeah.
Isnt it always true that what some people consider noise is music to someone else?

here here.

Am I the only one on this message board thats getting a little tired of the old lets split hairs by talking about strict definitions approach to arguing? whats the point of that? we all know rap is considered "music" irregardless of what your little definition of music is so lets stop throwing dictionaries at each other. step one. use common sense. dont try to elude the basic question by arguing over symantics. and thats my rap on that.

[Comic Book Guy]

These people are not using their voices as instruments, they are simply talking fastly without any sense of direction. As for poetry, it seems to me that they say irrelavant lines in their "lyrics" for the sake of one word rhyming with the other.

I mean: can we really even call something like S Club 7, or Steps music? A lot of their stuff is just bassy bits, with them dancing to it. Also, as someone already said, Rock 'n Roll was once considered to be non-music as well. Interesting, cos both styles of music were ripped off black people.

Yes we can call commercial pop music. As much as I hate to say it, most of these bands occasionally contain singers with ability and range, I mean, Christina Aguleria does have a voice, and N*Sync songs have reletively complex vocal arrangements. So it does qualify as music. Still it doesn't mean it isn't uninspired, commercial trash.

I've never understood this black/white division in music. Music is music, whoever plays it. No one genre of music can be kept to one race.

[durin's bane]

Rap isn't music. Rap is simply some dude guy talking quickly and swearing to a backtrack. Rap is either yelling about money and cars (bling-bling >.<) or making fun of a race, sex, religion, individual, or something else. Or it's just a mindless babble of swears. Rap is NOT music, but heck, neither is Britney Spears.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Jonathan
Rap is a form of poetry, as Lizra said. It's a form of art. And since rap always includes some kind of ryhtm and most of the times music instruments, I define rap as music.

Art/poetry + ryhtm + music instruments = music to me.

hey we can't play instruments so we will let a digital synthesizer create music for us... go figure.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Baby-K


I think rappers are the street poets of today - they are the advocates, judge & jury of society's shortcomings & face it they call it as they see it. They might not be 100% right, but that's their artistic freedom I guess.

I have heard quite a bit of rap and they sing about sex, drugs, cars, money etc.... Come on listening to Nelly its getting hot in here is poetry right?

[Baby-K]

I have heard quite a bit of rap and they sing about sex, drugs, cars, money etc.... Come on listening to Nelly its getting hot in here is poetry right?

He sings other songs too y'know - all artists don't do ALL their songs to make a statement. Take Blink 182 for instance - do you consider them to play Music? if so just remember that they have numerous sexual references in their lyrics as does many other rock groups. In fact Blink 182 has a song that in it's entirety consists of Sh*t faced, mothf*cker................, just a lot of swearing and carryin on. And hey, Heather Nova is a folk singer (though I'm not sure if that label really suits her) - she sings about sex as well & swears in some of her songs Tori Amos has made the odd sexual reference or two, Counting Crows has sung about drugs, as has Live, Metallica, Babes in Toyland and numeous other bands. What then makes their stuff music & rap not?

These people are not using their voices as instruments, they are simply talking fastly without any sense of direction. As for poetry, it seems to me that they say irrelavant lines in their "lyrics" for the sake of one word rhyming with the other.

Take a listen to Wyclef Jean - notably a song named Sang Fézi from his Carnival album, if that's not using your voice as an instrument I don't know what is. He has also done a collaboration or whatever with the Neville Brothers named Mona Lisa on the same album - again, he incorporates a different style to compliment his own & it works for him. And he speaks out against violence and is an advocate for safe sex (take a listen to Year of the Dragon).

[Bombadillo]

Originally posted by Anglorfin
Like basically everyone else has said, rap is poetry, and since poetry naturally has a rythm and a scheme to itself I would not call a simple drum beat or little DJ mixed notes in a rap song the "music" because it is already implied by the flow of words.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Baby-K
He sings other songs too y'know - all artists don't do ALL their songs to make a statement. Take Blink 182 for instance - do you consider them to play Music? if so just remember that they have numerous sexual references in their lyrics as does many other rock groups. In fact Blink 182 has a song that in it's entirety consists of Sh*t faced, mothf*cker................, just a lot of swearing and carryin on. And hey, Heather Nova is a folk singer (though I'm not sure if that label really suits her) - she sings about sex as well & swears in some of her songs Tori Amos has made the odd sexual reference or two, Counting Crows has sung about drugs, as has Live, Metallica, Babes in Toyland and numeous other bands. What then makes their stuff music & rap not?

Blink 182 is garbage... never liked them and I don't punk in general. Strumming power chords isn't my idea of musical talent.


My point about rap relating to drugs and sex etc..... isn't whether its music but poetry. C'mon how are they moderns poets on the street... I heard one rap song and he was telling some girl to get down on her knees. It was funny but I don't call that poetry. Or how about when they sing about pimping.. is that poetry too?

Most bands that I here singing about drugs isn't about selling it or buying it but about the struggle with their addiction. I have heard several rap songs talking about how they are going to get stoned etc....

Anyways most bands I listen are not popular at all and I don't like pop music of any genre. (Thats where most of the garbage comes from)

[Agalayth]

I have never liked rap, and I never will. I can't stand their constant screaming about things that no one cares about. I also can't stand their names. Ja Rule.....

Even though I don't like to say discriminating words, I just had to let this out...

Retards
Attempting
Poetry

[Lady of Rohan]

I don't think that rap is music. I think of it more as "fast talking"

Retards
A ttempting
Poetry

Lol. Nice.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Ragnarok
My point about rap relating to drugs and sex etc..... isn't whether its music but poetry. C'mon how are they moderns poets on the street... I heard one rap song and he was telling some girl to get down on her knees. It was funny but I don't call that poetry. Or how about when they sing about pimping.. is that poetry too?

Most bands that I here singing about drugs isn't about selling it or buying it but about the struggle with their addiction. I have heard several rap songs talking about how they are going to get stoned etc....

Anyways most bands I listen are not popular at all and I don't like pop music of any genre. (Thats where most of the garbage comes from)

Did you even read anything she said up there? she just refuted that argument and you just said it again as if she hadnt said anything. For you to sit here and say all rap is just about drugs and sex is the same as saying all metal is just about drugs and sex. Like your parents do.... When we both know its not. If they (and you) would just listen to the music and not assume based on stereotype then maybe they could realize that. Dont be the worlds biggest hypocrite. Of course there are different kinds of rap. just like there are different kinds of every kind of music. We both agree that most of the "pop"-ular music thats making the most money is total crap. Whether its rap or country or pop or whatever. Its pretty much across the board crap. But you expose yourself as ignorant when you catagorically state all rap is the same and its bad. Come on wake up. Theres plenty of art in there. You havent looked around inside enough to know thats all. But youre smart enough not to make blanket statements like all rap is about X.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
Did you even read anything she said up there? she just refuted that argument and you just said it again as if she hadnt said anything. For you to sit here and say all rap is just about drugs and sex is the same as saying all metal is just about drugs and sex. Like your parents do.... When we both know its not. If they (and you) would just listen to the music and not assume based on stereotype then maybe they could realize that. Dont be the worlds biggest hypocrite. Of course there are different kinds of rap. just like there are different kinds of every kind of music. We both agree that most of the "pop"-ular music thats making the most money is total crap. Whether its rap or country or pop or whatever. Its pretty much across the board crap. But you expose yourself as ignorant when you catagorically state all rap is the same and its bad. Come on wake up. Theres plenty of art in there. You havent looked around inside enough to know thats all. But youre smart enough not to make blanket statements like all rap is about X.

How am I a hypocrite? I said there are bands i listen to that sing about the drug addiction etc.. And when did I generalize about rap I said alot of rap is about drugs, sex etc... Where in that sentence did I say the wordall rap is about sex and drugs? I think rap is music... however from alot of the raps songs I have heard i don't believe its poetry... people stated rap is poetry earlier on the previous page. Of course there are different kind of rappers, my point is most rap that I hear played most and have been exposed to isn't poetry in my opinion. Your right I haven't looked around that much into rap because I don't like it. However all the rap that I hear in public (in people's cars, on the radio etc..) fits exactly what i said in my previous post. There is some rap that could be classified poetry but how often do you hear it on the radio? Alot of people who listen to rap, listen to all the popular rap which I think is crap, just like any other popular, hyped and over-commercialized musical genre.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Ragnarok
And when did I generalize about rap

I have heard quite a bit of rap and they sing about sex, drugs, cars, money

Id say thats some generalizing right there. Hey dont get me wrong. I hate 90% of rap myself. When my girlfriend puts rap on in her car i fuss at her till she changes it. But I just dont like it when people assume something about a huge genre of art when they dont really know much about it really and they are basing their opinion on the crap that they hear losers blasting on their car radios and that sell the most in stores. These are equivalent to the same pop garbage that we both hate. But there is fringe rap that goes outside the main stream drivle that you usually hear on the radio. I have the advantage of being old so i can remember when ALL rap was underground and fringe and it wasnt just about selling CDs and wearing gold chains. It was mainly a political form of expression. Listen to some Gill Scott Herron or something and youll see what I mean. The early rappers werent ever trying to be a rock band. They were making a fundamentally different kind of art form. to sit here and argue over if its "music" or not is missing the point if you ask me.

[Ragnarok]

I'm not arguing whether its music or not, I accept rap as a type of music. I said I think the mainstream rap doesn't qualify as poetry. When you generalize something you use the words "all" or "always". Saying quite a bit of "x" is not implying everything but a portion. I think I made myself clear so i'm throwing in the towel on this thread.

[Rána Eressëa]

Music is universally defined as "the art of arranging sounds in time so as to produce a continuous, unified, and evocative composition, as through melody, harmony, rhythm, and timbre" or simply "vocal or instrumental sounds possessing a degree of melody, harmony, or rhythm".

Digital instruments are still instruments. Vocal sounds includes fast talking that rhymes as well as just plain talking. And rap always has at least one of these: melody, harmony, rhythm.

So though the popular opinion is that "rap isn't music", you're going to have to face that it is indeed music. Just not the kind you obviously like.

[Comic Book Guy]

Digital instruments are still instruments. Vocal sounds includes fast talking that rhymes as well as just plain talking. And rap always has at least one of these: melody, harmony, rhythm.

I don't understand how drum machines and turntables are supposed to be considered instruments, as they are not played as such. Melody, Harmony and rythm I do not hear, nor are rappers aware of any of these or have knowledge about how any of them work.

So though the popular opinion is that "rap isn't music",

On the contary, rap is ironcily considered music by the public, you only have to walk into any record store to see that.

[HOBBIT]

Rap is not music, I am right and you are wrong. End of story.

[Lizra]

Heh! They say I'm blunt!