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01-02-2002, 11:07 PM | #21 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bree
Posts: 148
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I agree Michael. I think Tolkien used DEM very judicously.
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01-03-2002, 04:57 PM | #22 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Plymouth....UK
Posts: 18
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Oh if only Federal Express existed back in the thirties,
Just Imagine........ The Truck pulls up to Oroduin, Saurons in the shower, and shouts down , "Just leave it on the step" The Ring rolls out of the package, teeters on the Edge of the Cracks of Doom and then rolls in, Next scene Sauron gets to the Office and says to Witchy "You wouldn't believe the morning ive had.... Oh Sh....."
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Thorongil men called him in Gondor,the Eagle of the star, for he waskeen eyed, and wore a silver star upon his cloak, but none knew his true name nor in what land he was born.He came to Ecthelion from Rohan, where he had served King Thengel, but he was not one of the Rohirrim. He was a great leader of men, by land or sea,but departed into the shadows whence he came, before the days of Ecthelion were ended. |
01-03-2002, 08:18 PM | #23 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
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You know, I think afterall the whole 'The Fellowship should have used Eagles to get to Mordor' idea is about as logical as saying 'Sauron should have sent Dragons to the Shire instead of the Ringwraiths'.
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Falmon -- Dylan |
01-03-2002, 08:51 PM | #24 |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
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Well since you said it, what if Sauron had sent Dragons to the Shire.
Would the Dragons in the Withered Heath have obeyed him. Would they be able to carry the ring back with their claws being rather large? Would they eat Frode and then regurgitate his remains with the ring? Maybe the Nazgul would have rode the dragon's to the Shire. If a fleet of Dragons came towards the Shire would the Eagles interfere then? Maybe they would pick up Gandalf, Glorfindel, Elladan, Elrohir, Aragorn and four more to fight the Dragon riding Nazgul. I jest here or do I?
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. Last edited by afro-elf : 01-03-2002 at 09:27 PM. |
01-03-2002, 09:10 PM | #25 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 24
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imho...
the use of Eagles was meant only to correct mistakes made and other unexpected events. Saruman became a servant of Sauron, captured Gandalf, Eagles came. (true Radagast helped in this but he wasn't the one who flew up there.) Im most likly wrong. but that is my theroy
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Theres a lesson here... its better to watch stuff then to do stuff - Homer Simpson |
03-03-2002, 09:15 AM | #26 | |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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03-03-2002, 06:44 PM | #27 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Pinnath Gelin, formerly in Angaron...
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My best friend suggested the same idea-
Quote:
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O mor henion i dhu Ely siriar, el sila Ai! Aniron.... Tiro! El eria e mor I 'lir en el luitha 'uren Ai! Aniron... FRODO LIVES! |
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03-03-2002, 07:27 PM | #28 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Valinor, right next to Telperion . . . what did you expect, Michigan?
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Aye, but if the eagles had flown Frodo to Mount Doom, would it not be posssible for them to be felled by some orc-arrow? Or did I miss something about them that would make that impossible?
The Eagle bearing Frodo in this Alternate Universe wouldn't have felt the weight of the Ring, though. Sam didn't when he carried Frodo, so why should the Eagle?
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The Third Age of Entmoot has begun. Angel of music, guide and guardian! Grant to me your glory! The country I eat and spend the day in is by no means the country I sleep and dream in. Define patriotism. Hold the boat, you spastic monkey! ~ Elenka |
03-03-2002, 07:42 PM | #29 | |
Best Ex-Administrator ever
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03-03-2002, 07:56 PM | #30 |
'Sober' Mullet Frosh
Join Date: Jan 2002
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I think it has more to do with eagles being divine intervention-intervention that was only limited in scope by decree.
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"Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom" |
03-04-2002, 12:13 AM | #31 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
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I agree with all of your main points, but there's one thing I don't understand here. Why would Sauron be immediately aware of their tactics if they used the eagles? I would think that would be an unexpected strategy.
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03-04-2002, 12:23 AM | #32 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: minneapolis MN
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The Eagles would be hard to miss! Besides, Sauron had a palantir.
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Gandalf lives...oh and Frodo too. Haldir Lives!!! |
03-04-2002, 12:26 AM | #33 |
Elf Lord
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Well I think the eagles were pretty good at not being noticed, but I forgot about the palantir. Thanks Olsonm.
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03-04-2002, 12:33 AM | #34 |
Bard of Mangled Songs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila
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My take is that Olorin found out from Bilbo's and Frodo's actions how relatively resistant they were to the One Ring's effects and, of course, they already bore it.
Also it might have been less risky for a hobbit to bear it. Imagine if a great eagle were used and suddenly it went baddy on you and attacked. That would not only bring havoc to the allies but would have alerted Sauron at the very least as well. This is assuming, of course, that Manwe allowed any of his beloved to take on such a task. He already sent Olorin, didn't he? In Sauron's case, I think it would be like looking for a moving needle in a haystack. Every once in a while he gets to see the needle blinking but the needle also knows that it's been seen and quickly hides.
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Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert Accio, Ash Nazg! Elennuru s?*la lúmenn' omentielvo (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures... Last edited by Arathorn : 03-04-2002 at 12:54 AM. |
03-04-2002, 12:37 AM | #35 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: minneapolis MN
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Thanks for the thanks Menelvagor!
I think with a palantir Sauron would notice even a single eagle with Frodo on it and would have felt the Ring. Maybe if the eagle pulled a kamakazi (w/Frodo ) it might have succeded. But as others have pointed out, an eagle would be unlikely to do that.
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Gandalf lives...oh and Frodo too. Haldir Lives!!! |
03-04-2002, 12:54 AM | #36 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Thanks for the thanks for the thanks Olsonm! (sheesh, this could go on for a while...)
I am of the gerneral opinion that ChildofEru posted, that question had just been bugging me. Feel free to ignore me, it's late and I'm half asleep, I porbably won't notice. |
03-04-2002, 01:01 AM | #37 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: minneapolis MN
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Secrecy? No. Appearance.
Whether on foot or on air secrecy was a given. Frodo fell into the hands of the orcs and this was reported to Sauron. The fool! He knew Frodo was in Mordor but it never occured to him that he had the Ring. He assumed Frodo was a spy. If, however, he should happen to have noticed an eagle(he knew what they were)flying into Mordor he might have put 2 and 2 together.
Objections? P.S. I would never ignore a fellow Entmootineer!
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Gandalf lives...oh and Frodo too. Haldir Lives!!! Last edited by olsonm : 03-04-2002 at 01:03 AM. |
03-04-2002, 01:14 AM | #38 |
Bard of Mangled Songs
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olsonm
No objections.
I would like to add that seeing Pippin and later Aragorn on the live Isengard channel was the perfect smoke-screen. Seeing Isengard fall, then seeing his Captain fall in the Pelanor gave him the jitters. Also, assuming Smeagol was also a hobbit, it would look like only hobbits and men were stupid enough to bear the ring from Sauron's POV. When Frodo was captured and the ring was not found on him, it was reported that an elf was still loose. It might have been less likely for him to think of that elf (Sam in actuality) as having the ring. (Oh boy, I no longer rhyme)
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Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert Accio, Ash Nazg! Elennuru s?*la lúmenn' omentielvo (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures... |
03-04-2002, 01:31 AM | #39 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: minneapolis MN
Posts: 920
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Yeah, Arathorn.
I always loved the way all the verious threads of the story came together. Perfection.
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Gandalf lives...oh and Frodo too. Haldir Lives!!! |
03-04-2002, 08:03 AM | #40 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Valinor, right next to Telperion . . . what did you expect, Michigan?
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I see your point about the arrow having zip chance of hitting the Eagle. Sorry, I'm just in the sixth grade, I haven't studied physics or whatever, I don't know the textbook back-to-front. However, I get it once you point it out. But what does that have to do with an AU? Olsonm: If the Eagle carrying Frodo went down, then yes, Frodo would also go down. Wouldn't that kinda end a lot of the mission, since he's the Ringbearer?
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The Third Age of Entmoot has begun. Angel of music, guide and guardian! Grant to me your glory! The country I eat and spend the day in is by no means the country I sleep and dream in. Define patriotism. Hold the boat, you spastic monkey! ~ Elenka |
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