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11-19-2005, 09:33 PM | #21 |
Dreamweaver
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go...
Posts: 3,560
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er, i think that everyone is forgetting a lot of what aragorn did...he didn't JUST reclaim the throne of Gonder...even without the ranger work before the trilogy, he saved Frodo from Nazgul, he led the Rohirrim at Helm's Deep, he got the Army of the Dead, he liberated Gondor, HE MARCHED ON THE BLOODY BLACK GATES OF MORDOR! [that's courage], he healed all the people [including Faramir, who i like a lot better than Boromir] and he then reclaimed the throne of Gondor, and Gandalf definatly did more than Sam...sorry, but he did! so:
1.frodo, he didn't do a lot numberwise, but what he did was huge. 2.gandalf, he led them all, organized them all, brought the rohirrim, led the men at gondor before aragorn arrived, saved faramir, saved the fellowship from the Balrog [Durin's Bane! ], liberated Theoden, defeated Saruman, and put Aragorn on the throne...did i miss anything? 3. Aragorn...look up there^ 4.sam, already listed. and from there i pretty much agree...
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Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih... |
11-20-2005, 02:30 PM | #22 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Israel
Posts: 6,975
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I think that in the accomplishments list Legolas should be last. Tolkien says so himself, in a quote from Unfinished Tales that I can't write here since I don't have the book in English, but it's in the Istari part, about the Last Alliance. (Try looking in the index for Legolas - the last of the pages mentioned should be it)
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11-21-2005, 09:36 PM | #23 | |
Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan) |
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11-22-2005, 03:36 PM | #24 | |
Enting
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 54
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The passage (together with its context) Nurvingiel and Radagast The Brown are referring to reads:
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11-22-2005, 07:59 PM | #25 |
Hobbit in the Music
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Westmarch
Posts: 1,111
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I guess Gimli is more remarkable than Legolas because he was the only dwarf to get involved with the Fellowship, while the others stayed in their caves hoarding their treasure... whereas quite a few elves were involved in some way. I guess what I'm saying is that Gimli stands out from the other dwarves more than Legolas stands out from other elves.
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11-22-2005, 11:14 PM | #26 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
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..and for a limited time his photo w/autograph is available for under $40 USD.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
11-22-2005, 11:55 PM | #27 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
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LOL Spock.
That is a good point about Gimli Elanor, but it makes me wonder why exactly Gimli achieved more than Legolas. They seem pretty equal to me (unless what you said is exactly why he achieved more).
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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11-23-2005, 09:12 PM | #28 |
Dreamweaver
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go...
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hmm...really, the credit can be given to gimli for breaching the elf-dwarf barrier, he really connected [hehe ] with galadriel and thus befriended legolas, so he brought to races together...
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Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih... |
11-23-2005, 09:36 PM | #29 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
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begins humming "Michael Row The Boat Ashore".....
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
11-26-2005, 08:02 PM | #30 |
Hobbit in the Music
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Westmarch
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Well, I think they accomplished about the same, but Gimli grew more than Legolas did.
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12-09-2005, 02:33 PM | #31 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 455
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I'm not sure it's fair or even helpful to say "X achieved more than Y" or "Z achieved the least." I look at the fellowship as a team effort with each member contributing his part.
A football analogy would be saying the quarterback or running back achieved the most because they handled the ball most frequently and get the credit, stats-wise, for the yards, when a savvy fan would understand that neither would have achieved anything at all absent the work of their offensive linemen. |
12-09-2005, 03:29 PM | #32 | |
Cyber Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Although I still think it is interesting to think about which members had a larger role in the success of the Fellowship. I will list some of their accomplishments. (I am writeing in general terms although I am sure there are more) There msut be more items, but I am drawing a blank. Gandalf: Help to encourage/lead the free people of MiddleEarth against Sauron's forces. Leads the fellowship through their trip to Moria. Leads the fellowship after Fangorn forest. Aragorn: Gandalf's trusted associate. Kinded the fellowship after Gandalf left. Led the hobbits to Rivendell from Bree. Was key in getting the oathbreakers to fulfill their oath. Helped Sauron to strike in haste, via palentir. Knowledgeable of many areas/people of middle earth. Frodo: Take ring to cracks of doom. Help restore order to the shire. Becomes wiser from journey. Sam: Helps Frodo with his quest. Always stood by Frodo. Had no illusions about what his capabilities were Merry & Pippen: (since I forget who is who ) Save Farimir from death Help others realize true nature of palantir. Encourage Ents to help the free people of middle earth Help in defeat of Witch King. (save Eowyn from Witch King.) Became more serious in nature as a result of their travels. Gimli: Saved Eomer. Well spoken before Galadriel. Loyal to fellowship. Legolas: Helps fellowship throughout trip from Rivendell. Boromir: Helped to protect Merry& Pippen. (although if he didn't panic Frodo this may not have been needed.) Helped Fellowship in journey from Rivendell to Falls of Roaros(sp?)
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Sincerely, Anthony 'Many are my names in many countries,' he said. 'Mithrandir among the Elves, Tharkûn to the Drarves; Olórin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, in the South Incánus, in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not.' Faramir What nobler employment, or more valuable to the state, than that of the man who instructs the rising generation? Cicero (106BC-43BC) |
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12-09-2005, 05:27 PM | #33 |
Dreamweaver
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go...
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1. merry did the witchking
2. pippin did the palantir 3. falls of rauros 4. all correct..
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Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih... |
12-10-2005, 08:28 PM | #34 |
Hobbit in the Music
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Westmarch
Posts: 1,111
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Good point, Jon S. It was a team effort, and they should all be admired for advancing the cause of all free people. And good explanation, mithrand1r. I think it is interesting to look at the different ways they all changed.
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12-15-2005, 04:58 AM | #35 | |
Hobbit
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Quote:
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"My heart's right down to my toes, Mr. Pippin", Sam said, "but we aren't etten yet, and there's some stout folk with us. Whatever's in store for old Gandalf, I'll wager it isn't a wolf belly!" Some time later and a few dead wolf packs... "What did I tell you, Mr.Pippin?" said Sam, sheathing his sword. "Wolves won't get him. That was an eye-opener, and no doubt. Nearly singed the hair off my head!" |
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12-18-2005, 11:02 AM | #36 |
Head of the Department for the Invention and Propagation of Sugar, Spice and Everything Nice!
Join Date: Sep 2005
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I agree with clep-web. Everything that evryone in the Fellowship did was hopeless if Frodo did not complete his task, and Frodo could never have done it without Sam. And it makes me mad that when its all over, it is Frodo who gets put into all the songs, and gets all the glory. And then when they get back to the Shire, it is Pippin and Merry who gain the most honour, not Sam.
But that is also part of why I like him so much. He did not go to Mordor to fulfill a duty, or expecting glory at the end, yet he showed so much courage and instinctive wisdom.
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12-20-2005, 02:56 AM | #37 | |
Hobbit
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Quote:
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"My heart's right down to my toes, Mr. Pippin", Sam said, "but we aren't etten yet, and there's some stout folk with us. Whatever's in store for old Gandalf, I'll wager it isn't a wolf belly!" Some time later and a few dead wolf packs... "What did I tell you, Mr.Pippin?" said Sam, sheathing his sword. "Wolves won't get him. That was an eye-opener, and no doubt. Nearly singed the hair off my head!" |
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12-20-2005, 04:46 AM | #38 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
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I never knew Sam went to Jordan.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
12-23-2005, 01:05 AM | #39 | |
Hobbit
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mostly in the computer
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Quote:
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"My heart's right down to my toes, Mr. Pippin", Sam said, "but we aren't etten yet, and there's some stout folk with us. Whatever's in store for old Gandalf, I'll wager it isn't a wolf belly!" Some time later and a few dead wolf packs... "What did I tell you, Mr.Pippin?" said Sam, sheathing his sword. "Wolves won't get him. That was an eye-opener, and no doubt. Nearly singed the hair off my head!" |
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12-23-2005, 06:49 PM | #40 |
AngAdan
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 856
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Character development, well Aragon got a girl shorrly after the denouement, and thre of the hobbits got girls in the epilouge on the appedicies, but Boromir got orc arrows, Gandalft and Frodo never got a girl, and we have no indication the Legolas or Gimli did.
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Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me," |