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#1 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
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I'm going to go out on a limb here, and guess "Dumbledore is gay."
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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#2 |
The Ñoldóran
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mishawaka, IN
Posts: 2,050
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I have read Letters, Inked. And I know all that stuff is in there. I don't deny that Christianity had a great influence on Tolkien's work - I simply contest the fact that Lord of the Rings is a Christian allegory - like Tel is implying.
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
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#3 | ||
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: By the shores of cuivinien
Posts: 694
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wow...
Quote:
Quote:
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
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#4 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
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I agree wholeheartedly that it is NOT an allegory.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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#5 |
The Ñoldóran
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mishawaka, IN
Posts: 2,050
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Good, cause that's all I was saying.
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
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#6 |
Enting
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Where the only known occupation is constant laughter
Posts: 52
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![]() It's amazing I never thought about this until now. Israel is quite a close parallel with the Dunedain scenario. Being Jewish myself, it almost makes me feel like I am a descendant of the Dunedain!
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Yes yes, so what to write here! Well nobody looks at these things, and it's very unlikely that I'll produce anything that original. So I may as well write something either way since it doesn't matter! La la, lalalalala! La la laaaaaaaa, lalalalalalaaaaaa! |
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#7 |
The Ñoldóran
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mishawaka, IN
Posts: 2,050
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*rolls eyes*
Oh, for God's sake, who cares about Dumbledore's sexuality? It's not like it has anything to do with the story whatsoever...
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
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#8 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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You don't think so?
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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#9 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
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Not a whit. Find one textual evidence of it.
And JKR's remark was that "she always thought of Dumbledore as gay". She just never wrote him that way. (See accioquotes for the remarks at a reading session in, IIRC, New York.) And the author is bound by the texts written ever so much as the reader. When the revised editions come out, then we can talk about that aspect of non-disclosure being corrected by the author. There's not a whiff of evidence otherwise in the published texts. That'd be the equivalent of saying Sam Gamgee was always "gay" by Tolkien. There is no textual proof of the claim and much to refute it. Same for JKR and Dumby. ![]()
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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#10 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
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Quote:
![]() Of course, I also think she just wrote down whatever came into her head without any interest in what she'd previously written, and no concern at all for what might come after, and that she needed an editor with some chutzpah to keep her accountable, but... But if one allowed it in, it would have huge ramifications for the story. That's the kind of trouble one gets in, when one departs from the text. ![]()
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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#11 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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There isn't a whiff of evidence that he is heterosexual either.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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#12 |
Deus Ex Machina
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,951
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Possibly because he is derived from the archetypal 'elderly mentor' and thus harder for most readers to associate with either form of sexuality?
To try and shift this slightly back on topic... the mentoring character in any story is usually the one to provide spiritual guidance to the protagonist, placing constraints of what the author's real and invented cultures see as a moral person on that character's development. Had Rowling been brave enough to write her full idea of Dumbledore's character into the books it would have been a much stronger breakthrough for cultural minorities in mainstream literature. At the same time, it would have given the people arguing for the books being banned one more thing to latch onto. Now personally, I think she was just a lazy author. But one could make the argument that she was prevented from writing a character as she truly saw him by cultural intimidation in which religion can be said to have played a part. We know authors are (often intentionally) influenced by their internal beliefs, but how do external ideas concerning God and religion effect pieces of writing where the author writes from a secular standpoint? Can these be filtered out or will the author inevitably find themselves forced to stay within certain boundaries? And finally, what effect does theology have on authors who by the nature of their writing must play god?
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"5. Plain Rings with RUNES on the inside. Avoid these like the PLAGUE.-Diana Wynne Jones Tough Guide To FantasyLand ...it's not much of a show if somebody doesn't suffer, and preferably at length. Suffering is beautiful in any case, and so is anguish; but as for loathing, and bitterness... I don't think they belong on the stage at all. - Isabella, I Gelosi Last edited by Willow Oran : 12-06-2008 at 03:53 AM. |
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#13 |
Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: IM IN UR POSTZ, EDITIN' UR WURDZ
Posts: 6,433
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I agree there is no evidence in the books that Dumbledore is gay, and I think it's a bit ridiculous of her to be talking about it after everything is said and done.
... but seriously?... If, and this is an if that I don't think is true because I don't consider Dumbledore to be gay....... but.... IF... Dumbledore were gay, he would be.... like... the coolest gay character EVAR!!!!! O.o ... assuming we exclude the steaming pile of crap that was book 7. Aside from that he was totally awesome. |
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#14 | |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: By the shores of cuivinien
Posts: 694
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The runes in JRRT's work too seem to be paleo hebrew
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The far left is the paleo version of hebrew. And here... The top line is the paleo hebrew. I know I know you will say that the runes are norse and german etc. but keep in mind none of those cultures created letters. The ones in popular use today are aramaic.
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
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#15 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
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Bah, seeking correlations in shape only between two unrelated scripts is something the majority of philologues are very, very careful about, if they cannot avoid it all together. It's not something that consitutes a solid basis for sound theories. Correlation is not causation.
While the exact origins of Futhark are still speculative, there is to my knowledge no viable theory that it was in origin Hebrew. A common origin is however possible. And Aramaic is a language, by the way, and not a script. Nor did the Israelites develop the Hebrew alphabet on their own, so I do not see why you saying that the Norse and Germanic cultures didn't create letters (which is IMO a false assumption) is an argument for your position at all. Not that this has anything to do with Theology, I realise now. I'm sure there are better suited threads for this.
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We are not things. |
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#16 |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: By the shores of cuivinien
Posts: 694
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Yeah I know this is a bit off topic
I do agree to some extent but my only goal really was to show the relations between the texts and suggest some common origin. I will be the first to say I would need more of a correlation and more research.
Off topic a bit but still relates in that we still are talking about the original biblical language and the impact of Israel on the entire world in general and it's influence or non influence on my favorite author.
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
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#17 | |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: By the shores of cuivinien
Posts: 694
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I will give you exact origins - the whole world is a lie.
Quote:
Here follows the origins of all the original European languages and culture. The Israelite connection, the complete history revealed: You want academic proof, watch this entire video and the part after. As I have said before, the Africans were not capturing and selling into slavery other Africans, they were selling the refugees of Israel after it was sacked in 70AD. Over a period of about 1500 years we kept migrating from the east coast of Africa to the west coast. The greater part settled in west Africa and there our enemies eventually rounded us up and put us into bondage. Many of us were living in Europe at the time and 1000s of Israelite slaves were taken from Europe into slavery. In fact, we are the original kings and queens of those lands. We founded those countries. That was what the renaissance was about. After our downfall it was meant to revise all things, history and the images which is merely a by product of the original rulers (us, Israelites) being brought down and their enemies now coming into full power. Here follows academic proof. Do you know what the Book of Ballymote is or the Yellow Book of Lecan for that matter? These are European books of history and genealogy. In the link above were it states the contents of the Book of Ballymote, it mentions the history of the "Jews"/Israelites. Why is that? Because The christian kings were the jews. Also in the Book of Ballymote, there is a copy of the Lebor Gabála Érenn, which states that the original monarchs and peoples of the Gaels were in fact descendants of the Scythians. The original video above shows you clips of an academic documentary that shows that the Israelites in Europe were descendants of the Scyths and the other evidents (the books I provided here) show that they were intern the founders of the European monarchies and countries. They were all one people, the scattered Israelites after Israel was sacked in 70 AD, who were all black people and the eventual slaves in the Americas. Psalms 83:2-6 2 For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head. 3 They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones. 4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from [being] a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance. 5 For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee: 6 The tabernacles of EDOM, and the Ishmaelites; of Moab, and the Hagarenes; 12 Who said, Let us take to ourselves the houses of God in possession. We lost our identity, it says "no more in remembrance;" the narrator in the embedded video said the exact same thing. We do not know because we lost it during the long migration over the years. We then lost our most recent history as rulers and founders of Europe as it was taken away/beaten out of us during slavery. So with that it is easy to see that, not just all the European letters but language, culture and myths owe a great deal to the Israelites. Now it even makes more sense why the queen of england sits on the stone of Jacob (which she has no right to do since she is not an Israelite - pretentious lier).
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
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#18 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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Quote:
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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#19 | |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: By the shores of cuivinien
Posts: 694
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Omit?
Quote:
I am not taking credit for "todays culture," I had nothing to day with the chinese or japanese culture to name a few. What I am doing is reclaiming my own. Which yes, is a very significant culture in world history but not because of our, "greatness:" Deuteronomy 9:5 Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. It was for the wickedness/vain practices/idolatry/chrismas trees ![]()
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
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#20 | |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
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We are not things. |
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