The Greatest Weapon - Page 2

Comic Book Guy · 11-28-2001, 07:27 PM

Quote:

I believe that Orcrist, Glamdring, and Sting were from gondolin. Although i can't remember where I heard/Read that.

It says that in the Hobbit, when Elrond is telling the lore of the swords and the 'Goblin Wars' of the first age.

Wayfarer · 11-28-2001, 07:56 PM

Really?

Comic Book Guy · 11-29-2001, 02:57 PM

Its in the Chapter "A short rest", it doesn't go into much detail though. All it tells is that they all came from Gondolin and they all earned a bad reputation among Orcs and Trolls. Turgon owned Glamdring and the word "Orcrist" meant "Orc Cleaver".

Bacchus · 12-01-2001, 02:32 PM

Elrond actually identifies only Glamdring and Orcrist. Later on, under the Misties, Bilbo notes that the as yet unnamed Sting glows when in proximity to goblins, and from this surmises that it too is an Elvish blade.

As far as whether the swords glowed in the presence of orcs only, or all enemies, the evidence is equivocal. I seem to recall Sting glowing during the encounter with the spiders in Mirkwood, but I'm not sure.

Orcrist was placed over Thorin's tomb, and was said to protect Erebor from being surprised by foes.

I don't recall if Sting glowed in Gollum's presence, or Shelobs.

Elvellon · 12-01-2001, 03:31 PM

I would say the One Ring was the greatest weapon of all too. I believe that, most likely, the One Ring could be used (among other things) to help Sauron to force his will upon his army (by increasing his natural power) so that he could increase their willingness to fight and to focus their hatred on Sauron’s enemies.

Ace · 12-03-2001, 03:51 AM

Orcrist, Glamdring, and Sting did only glow for Orcs. The Great Goblin says they were forged during the Goblin Wars and were specifically made to slay Orcs.

"If the choice be mine, I say, we march!"

Kirinki54 · 12-03-2001, 05:41 PM

The GREATEST weapon was probably Sauron´s Grond...

Thorondor · 12-03-2001, 09:28 PM

Hold on...Sting glows bright red at Weathertop, but perhaps this was a change in Frodo's sight since he was wearing the ring at the time.

I also have always thought that Turin's black sword was the most potent weapon. It's the only one that seems to have a power, indeed a mind of it's own. The other weapons seem like props or objects, but that sword is a character, like the one ring (which I don't consider a weapon, as such)

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 12-04-2001, 12:56 AM

Didn't the Orcs call Glandring and Orcrist Beater and Biter? I always laughed when I read that.

Wasn't Anglachel sentient to a degree? Was it Eol who made it like that?

Kirinki54 · 12-04-2001, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Wasn't Anglachel sentient to a degree? Was it Eol who made it like that?

When Thingol gave the sword to Beleg, Melian said: "There is malice in this sword. The dark heart of the smith still dwells in it. It will not love the hand it serves; neither will it abide with you long." And what happens? When Beleg is using Achlangel to free Túrin, it slips and pricks Túrin whereupon he in turn seizes the sword and kills Beleg. An illfated sword if there was one!

Pailan · 12-04-2001, 08:25 PM

I would cast my vote for Grond of the First Age.

"Called the Hammer of the Underworld, Morgoth's mighty mace with which he slew Fingolfin before the doors of Angband."

Now that's a mighty weapon. Much more of a personal weapon than Sauron's battering ram of the same name.

Pailan

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 12-04-2001, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kirinki54

When Thingol gave the sword to Beleg, Melian said: "There is malice in this sword. The dark heart of the smith still dwells in it. It will not love the hand it serves; neither will it abide with you long." And what happens? When Beleg is using Achlangel to free Túrin, it slips and pricks Túrin whereupon he in turn seizes the sword and kills Beleg. An illfated sword if there was one!

Makes you wonder why Beleg would not chose another after learning that.

Wayfarer · 12-05-2001, 01:38 PM

Because, foul spirited though it might be, it was still an awsome weapon. It's the middle earth equivilent to the 'cursed blade' that all mmorpg's seem to have... outrageously powerful, but dangerous to wield.

After all, Anglachel could 'cleave earth-wrought metal like bitter' (loose paraphrase). That goes for armor (pretty nice) , weapons (slice thier sword in half with a parry) and other interesting things.

Heck, _I_ want a sword like that.

Kirinki54 · 12-06-2001, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Makes you wonder why Beleg would not chose another after learning that.

It is not seldom seen that persons seem to walk straight into trouble, it is as though they operated on some other sort of logic or had foreknowledge of their destiny and no matter how bitter they cannot go against it. Especially in the Sil!

turambar · 12-07-2001, 05:31 PM

How long do orcs live? It seems surprising that third age orcs would remember weapons forged in the first age. Refering to Orcrist and Glamdring.

Comic Book Guy · 12-07-2001, 05:54 PM

Turambar it is a debated subject about lifespans of Orcs, they are corruptions of Elves so some people assume they live forever, but that could also mean their souls would go to the Halls of Mandos when they did die.

As for the names and knowledge of the swords, I just assume word gets round and stories are told between orcs. I don't think the Goblins of the Misty Mountains where in the first age wars though.

Xivigg · 12-09-2001, 11:48 PM

i don't think anyone can tell how long an orc can live cause in my though no orc ever die of old age

Orc are breed to fight if not agains't an ennemies then agains't themself

Oliver Thornton · 12-11-2001, 09:12 PM

I suspect if Bilbo Baggins had the three elven rings he could have defeated Smaug himself except the fact that he knew not of them.

Ñólendil · 12-12-2001, 01:45 AM

If I haven't said it yet (I have a terrible memory for most thing), welcome!

I don't know about Bilbo. I don't think the Elven Rings could be used for combat.

byrde123 · 12-12-2001, 02:08 AM

The greatest weapon? At the start and at the last.....the greatest weapon against the "unnamed foe" was love, friendship, and loyalty. Yes, all the weapons at their disposal helped along the way. But the greatest weapon they had was the love and friendship between Samwise and Frodo and the love between Frodo and Bilbo. Bilbo stumbled upon the ring. Frodo took the ring because Bilbo asked him to. As much as Bilbo came to 'love' (need) the ring.....he gave it up to Frodo. He loved Frodo more. Sam goes with Frodo out of friendship and loyalty. Sticks with him to the end........Holding hands on the mountain....waiting for death to come.....but they finished the task.....loyalty. Say what you will......love, friendship, loyalty gets my vote.

11-28-2001, 07:56 PM	#22
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Really? __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

12-01-2001, 02:32 PM	#24
Bacchus Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Houston TX USA Posts: 245	Elrond actually identifies only Glamdring and Orcrist. Later on, under the Misties, Bilbo notes that the as yet unnamed Sting glows when in proximity to goblins, and from this surmises that it too is an Elvish blade. As far as whether the swords glowed in the presence of orcs only, or all enemies, the evidence is equivocal. I seem to recall Sting glowing during the encounter with the spiders in Mirkwood, but I'm not sure. Orcrist was placed over Thorin's tomb, and was said to protect Erebor from being surprised by foes. I don't recall if Sting glowed in Gollum's presence, or Shelobs. __________________ Yet neither by wolf, nor by Balrog, nor by Dragon, would Morgoth have achieved his end, but for the treachery of Men. Always after a defeat and a respite, the Shadow takes another shape and grows again.

12-01-2001, 03:31 PM	#25
Elvellon Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Lindon Posts: 637	I would say the One Ring was the greatest weapon of all too. I believe that, most likely, the One Ring could be used (among other things) to help Sauron to force his will upon his army (by increasing his natural power) so that he could increase their willingness to fight and to focus their hatred on Sauron’s enemies. __________________ **************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion

12-03-2001, 05:41 PM	#27
Kirinki54 Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: European Union Posts: 463	The GREATEST weapon was probably Sauron´s Grond... __________________ 'They need more gardens,' said Legolas. 'The houses are dead, and there is too little here that grows and is glad. If Aragorn comes into his own, the people of the Wood shall bring him birds that sing and trees that do not die.'

12-04-2001, 12:56 AM	#29
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	Didn't the Orcs call Glandring and Orcrist Beater and Biter? I always laughed when I read that. Wasn't Anglachel sentient to a degree? Was it Eol who made it like that? Last edited by Sister Golden Hair : 12-04-2001 at 12:59 AM.

11-29-2001, 02:57 PM	#23
Comic Book Guy Best Ex-Administrator ever Join Date: May 2001 Location: Ireland Posts: 60,547	Its in the Chapter "A short rest", it doesn't go into much detail though. All it tells is that they all came from Gondolin and they all earned a bad reputation among Orcs and Trolls. Turgon owned Glamdring and the word "Orcrist" meant "Orc Cleaver".

12-03-2001, 03:51 AM	#26
Ace Hobbit Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Long Island Posts: 20	Orcrist, Glamdring, and Sting did only glow for Orcs. The Great Goblin says they were forged during the Goblin Wars and were specifically made to slay Orcs. "If the choice be mine, I say, we march!"

12-03-2001, 09:28 PM	#28
Thorondor Sapling Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: California Posts: 10	Hold on...Sting glows bright red at Weathertop, but perhaps this was a change in Frodo's sight since he was wearing the ring at the time. I also have always thought that Turin's black sword was the most potent weapon. It's the only one that seems to have a power, indeed a mind of it's own. The other weapons seem like props or objects, but that sword is a character, like the one ring (which I don't consider a weapon, as such)

12-04-2001, 08:25 PM	#31
Pailan Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: aisle 12, seat#2 Posts: 449	Grond I would cast my vote for Grond of the First Age. "Called the Hammer of the Underworld, Morgoth's mighty mace with which he slew Fingolfin before the doors of Angband." Now that's a mighty weapon. Much more of a personal weapon than Sauron's battering ram of the same name. Pailan

12-05-2001, 01:38 PM	#33
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Because, foul spirited though it might be, it was still an awsome weapon. It's the middle earth equivilent to the 'cursed blade' that all mmorpg's seem to have... outrageously powerful, but dangerous to wield. After all, Anglachel could 'cleave earth-wrought metal like bitter' (loose paraphrase). That goes for armor (pretty nice) , weapons (slice thier sword in half with a parry) and other interesting things. Heck, _I_ want a sword like that. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

12-07-2001, 05:31 PM	#35
turambar Sapling Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: usa Posts: 1	How long do orcs live? It seems surprising that third age orcs would remember weapons forged in the first age. Refering to Orcrist and Glamdring. Last edited by turambar : 12-07-2001 at 05:33 PM.

12-07-2001, 05:54 PM	#36
Comic Book Guy Best Ex-Administrator ever Join Date: May 2001 Location: Ireland Posts: 60,547	Turambar it is a debated subject about lifespans of Orcs, they are corruptions of Elves so some people assume they live forever, but that could also mean their souls would go to the Halls of Mandos when they did die. As for the names and knowledge of the swords, I just assume word gets round and stories are told between orcs. I don't think the Goblins of the Misty Mountains where in the first age wars though.

12-09-2001, 11:48 PM	#37
Xivigg Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Earth Posts: 495	i don't think anyone can tell how long an orc can live cause in my though no orc ever die of old age Orc are breed to fight if not agains't an ennemies then agains't themself __________________ Thinking before acting is alway's a good idea.

12-11-2001, 09:12 PM	#38
Oliver Thornton Sapling Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Owego N.Y. Posts: 13	I suspect if Bilbo Baggins had the three elven rings he could have defeated Smaug himself except the fact that he knew not of them. __________________ I am a lone traveler

12-12-2001, 01:45 AM	#39
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	If I haven't said it yet (I have a terrible memory for most thing), welcome! I don't know about Bilbo. I don't think the Elven Rings could be used for combat. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

12-12-2001, 02:08 AM	#40
byrde123 Sapling Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Shores of Lake Erie Posts: 5	The greatest weapon? At the start and at the last.....the greatest weapon against the "unnamed foe" was love, friendship, and loyalty. Yes, all the weapons at their disposal helped along the way. But the greatest weapon they had was the love and friendship between Samwise and Frodo and the love between Frodo and Bilbo. Bilbo stumbled upon the ring. Frodo took the ring because Bilbo asked him to. As much as Bilbo came to 'love' (need) the ring.....he gave it up to Frodo. He loved Frodo more. Sam goes with Frodo out of friendship and loyalty. Sticks with him to the end........Holding hands on the mountain....waiting for death to come.....but they finished the task.....loyalty. Say what you will......love, friendship, loyalty gets my vote.

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