12-27-2005, 04:50 PM | #21 | |
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nah
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12-27-2005, 05:05 PM | #22 | |
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Back to semi-on-topic - how many Armenians were killed by Turks? And as far as why this topic - Besides being an awful thing, perhaps the Holocaust was one of the first mass genocides to really be broadcast worldwide via mass media? And that made it more horrible, because we saw images? I still remember pictures I saw over 35 years ago - they're burned in my memory.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 12-27-2005 at 05:07 PM. |
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12-27-2005, 05:16 PM | #23 | |
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Here's an article to point about the Turks/Armenians question: http://www.ataa.org/ataa/ref/armenian/anatolia1915.html Last edited by Lotesse : 12-27-2005 at 05:21 PM. |
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12-27-2005, 05:33 PM | #24 | |||
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12-27-2005, 09:23 PM | #25 |
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Before I begin let me just say that from the evidence I've seen I think the Holocaust did indeed happen and that I think it was as awful, horrible and tragic as anyone here thinks it was. I'm also a firm believer in the lesson that we who forget what history tell's us are doomed to repeat it. However I find it disheartening but also typical that those who can't know the whole truth believe in the absloutes that they've been taught to believe in. If you weren't at the death camps yourself to witness what happened then you can't flatly proclaim that the holocaust happened and subsequently denounce those who question the event as bigots, anti semites or criminals. What would happen to society if we weren't allowed to question the events of history? We are urged to question all knowledge yet, almost uniquely, if you question the authenticity of the holocaust you're guaranteed to be labelled those names that I mentioned earlier. Isn't that suspicious in itself?
With all the wealth of intelligence and recources at the disposal of so many organizations in the world is it really so inconceivable that an event such as the holocaust could have been faked? Bear in mind also that for a people who's population is so small, the Jewish people are EXTREMELY prolific and talented. You need only search on the internet.
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Then hate overcame Fëanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying 'Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!' And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all dwellers in Eä. Last edited by Captain Stern : 12-27-2005 at 09:27 PM. |
12-27-2005, 09:25 PM | #26 | |
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In general, I'd say faking the Holocaust is fairly high up on the list of things that are inconceivable.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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12-27-2005, 09:29 PM | #27 | |
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Maybe you're right, or maybe you're underestimating what mankind can achieve
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Then hate overcame Fëanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying 'Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!' And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all dwellers in Eä. Last edited by Captain Stern : 12-27-2005 at 09:32 PM. |
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12-27-2005, 09:31 PM | #28 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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what aspect do you think was faked?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
12-27-2005, 09:36 PM | #29 |
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Well, for example, the largest portions of the media are controlled by Jewish persons. Fact. If you control the media, you can do a LOT.
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Then hate overcame Fëanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying 'Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!' And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all dwellers in Eä. |
12-27-2005, 10:11 PM | #30 |
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I can certainly offer a motive for the faking of the holocaust. The Jews have been crapped upon by everyone for thousands of years. If the holocaust did indeed happen then the Jewish people logically came to the conclusion that they could not trust the safety of their race to any one nation. So, after the war was over they took Israel so they could protect themselves.
What if they realised this before World War 2 began? Anti Semitism was rampant as always. Perhaps they guessed that, unless they acted, the Jewish race was doomed? Then WW2 happened. An opportunity perhaps? Could they have realistically expected to procure the sanctuary of their very own country without the tremendous fuel that would be provided by the world wide outrage that was caused by the holocaust? Another 'bonus' you could call it, is that, even now, 60 years on, whenever Israel is in trouble, Germany continually hand them freebies because of whatever happened between them and their people. I just don't think anything is black and white where us despicable humans are concerned.
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Then hate overcame Fëanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying 'Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!' And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all dwellers in Eä. Last edited by Captain Stern : 12-27-2005 at 10:13 PM. |
12-27-2005, 10:19 PM | #31 |
of the House of Fëanor
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Wow.
Last edited by Lotesse : 12-27-2005 at 10:21 PM. |
12-27-2005, 10:25 PM | #32 | ||
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There were jews in the death camps that survived. Jews that worked in getting bodies out of the chambers and burning them. Again one can say it was all a scheme but really if you can't believe a man that was in there when it happened who can you believe..? Quote:
There is a lot of evidence, German documents that tell what was planned and what actually happened... you could say it is all fake, but added with Hitler's ideology and the solid evidence shown above... combined with people's testimonies of what happened... it seems highly unlikely that it's all made up. |
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12-27-2005, 11:10 PM | #33 | ||||
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As to the film evidence, how can we be absloutely sure all this was genuine? Might they have been actors, nationalists, or something else? Did journalists descend in their thousands on these sites? The rare film sequences we've seen... Well, I hate to say it, but we've all seen Schindler's List haven't we? The written evidence. How can we really know they weren't faked? Especially in that day and age. If there was suspicion these documents were faked, what effort could have been made to analyze them? Advanced Computer Analysis? Now that we have these advanced tools at our disposal do we make any effort to delve into such a political mine field? No. Even if we wanted to, do you think such documents are lying around by now? The rare interviews of the people interred. How can we know that they weren't influenced by an early equivelant of the mossad agency (or genuine mossad later on)? Perhaps, "shudder", this cover up was the precursor to the CIA MKULTRA project. What did inspire the sudden interest in mind control among the Russians and the Americans in the aftermath of the 2nd World War? Quote:
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Then hate overcame Fëanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying 'Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!' And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all dwellers in Eä. Last edited by Captain Stern : 12-27-2005 at 11:58 PM. |
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12-28-2005, 12:53 AM | #34 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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One can question anything that happened in history, but IMO the collusion involved, including multiple countries, is just too mindblowingly big to make it realistic. As I said, IMO, faking the Holocaust is fairly high up on the list of things that are inconceivable. Not impossible, just inconceivable. We all have to go on faith when we're talking about historical events, but as far as those type of events go, IMO it's a pretty sure bet it happened.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
12-28-2005, 01:18 AM | #35 |
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Captain Stern, are you saying what I think that you are saying? My opinion of you has dropped immeasurably.
edit: I posted that before I read that you had "Before I begin let me just say that from the evidence I've seen I think the Holocaust did indeed happen and that I think it was as awful, horrible and tragic as anyone here thinks it was. I'm also a firm believer in the lesson that we who forget what history tell's us are doomed to repeat it." I know that those were your opening words, but I sometimes read things out of order or skim. I skimmed past that. From the rest of your posts, it does/did seem that you are denying the existence of the Holocaust. And much of what you posted is highly silly and offensive (yes both at same time). Because while you thankfully personally believe that the Holocaust happened, you still are saying - here are some good reasons why other ppl might think that the Jews just made it up. You call the crap you posted plausible. It certainly is not. It is highly ridiculous. Highly insulting.
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12-28-2005, 08:10 AM | #36 | |
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It's one thing to be critical about whether historical events went as we believed they did, it's another to proclaim they never happened and that all evidence there of must be faked.
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12-28-2005, 08:29 AM | #37 | ||
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Oh and on a related note, there's always the moon landing :P Can you explain to me how that flag was moving as if there was wind!? Maybe we really shouldn't trust anything. Quote:
Maybe I should once again stress that personally I think it's highly probable (remember I don't really 'believe' in much) that the holocaust happened. I guess I'm just playing devil's advocate. There can't be anything wrong with that, surely? And If you're wondering why I'm doing it... well, I love conspiracy theories
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Then hate overcame Fëanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying 'Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!' And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all dwellers in Eä. |
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12-28-2005, 09:09 AM | #38 | ||
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12-28-2005, 09:29 AM | #39 | |
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Then hate overcame Fëanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying 'Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!' And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all dwellers in Eä. |
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12-28-2005, 09:43 AM | #40 | ||
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