World Politics

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

I think it does. Particularly such countries as North Korea and Cuba where the governments are so backward that the people completely suffer.

And yes - I do hate socialist and Comunist forms of government. I should say FORMS - because it's not necessarily the people I hate - but the form of government they have.

By this statement I take it you mean it's the government and not the people you hate.

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

Actually - yeah I have a problem with them. I don't hate them - because they aren't fully socialist - but I would NEVER live in Sweden nor would I live in Canada.

I personally feel the US is has too many social programs and has too many hand outs and it's no where near as bad as sweden or canada.

That's Sweden and Canada - capital S and C. (I know this is hasty typing on your part.)

Fair enough though, I just wanted to point out what I personally feel is a misuse of the word hate by yourself and Chrys. Hatred implies that Mao or Castro, say, came to your house, murdered your family, poisoned your dog, and burned down your town. There probably are people that do hate Mao or Castro, but I don't think they post here because China heavily restricts internet access (I don't know about Cuba). *Cheers for Peacefire.org*

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

By this statement I take it you mean it's the government and not the people you hate.

That's Sweden and Canada - capital S and C. (I know this is hasty typing on your part.)

I routinely will switch between capitals and lowercase - it's just depends if I feel like going back to properly capitalize them or not. Usually that urge onlye hits me where New Jersey, America or United States is concerned though.

Fair enough though, I just wanted to point out what I personally feel is a misuse of the word hate by yourself and Chrys. Hatred implies that Mao or Castro, say, came to your house, murdered your family, poisoned your dog, and burned down your town. There probably are people that do hate Mao or Castro, but I don't think they post here because China heavily restricts internet access (I don't know about Cuba). *Cheers for Peacefire.org*

OH - I hate Castro and Mao - I just don't hate the people of Cuba or China. But the Cuban leadership I do hate and I hate their form of government. It's the same way I can hate Hitler or the KKK. The KKK hasn't personally done anything to me - nor have I seen any Nazis - byut I hate them and what they stand for just the same.

[inked]

Interesting "advance" in Germany..........

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...30/wgerm30.xml


Gives a whole new meaning to "Take this job and shove it!", doesn't it?

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

i dont hate China!

I just dont like the current way in which the socialist model is being employed
there, and feel there is much to do, but in many countries,

[EarthBound]

Originally Posted by inked

Interesting "advance" in Germany..........

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...30/wgerm30.xml


Gives a whole new meaning to "Take this job and shove it!", doesn't it?

Augghh!! Makes me want to vomit wretchly ....or is just lunch?

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally Posted by inked

Interesting "advance" in Germany..........

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...30/wgerm30.xml


Gives a whole new meaning to "Take this job and shove it!", doesn't it?

although I'm not sure that many things in the 'Tory'graph can be believed,
this is a bit, um, stomach moving?! is that the right phrase?

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by inked

Interesting "advance" in Germany..........

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...30/wgerm30.xml


Gives a whole new meaning to "Take this job and shove it!", doesn't it?

That's too funny (as in ridiculous) for words. Just think though - germany has taken a tough stand on their 10%+ unemployment rate. Soon - all unemployed German women will be in the sex industry since it's one of the largest industries in the world.

[Twista]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

i dont hate China!

I just dont like the current way in which the socialist model is being employed
there, and feel there is much to do, but in many countries,

Its working for them isnt it? Afterall they have the fastest growing econemy in the world... there system must be going something right!

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally Posted by Twista

Its working for them isnt it? Afterall they have the fastest growing econemy in the world... there system must be going something right!

only since the death of Mao Tsetung!

and, to be honest, I don't think that their economy is good, just because it is the fastest growing, most of their growth is due to exploitation of the working classes by Big Business in America, UK and Japan.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Twista

Its working for them isnt it? Afterall they have the fastest growing econemy in the world... there system must be going something right!

It's more than having a fast growing economy - it's also a matter of how welloff and free the people are. China's population is very poor and is basically being used as slave labor to bring money to the government. (Amazingly - except for his snide comment about American and other's industry - LCoU and I basically agree.)

[Jonathan]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

I really don't feel like having 50% of my hard earned money being stolen by the government and then having to pay 25% in sales tax on top of it. Americans have a much higher standard of living overall.

I don't know where you got the idea that Americans have a "much higher standard of living" than us. Of course, it is hard to measure but most reports place Sweden at the very top of the list of countries with the highest standard - above the US (which still has one of the highest standards in the world).

This is a draft from the UN Human Development Index Report from last year. It is widely recognised as a good report on the well-being in the countries in the world. Things like poverty, literacy, education and life expectancy are taken into account:

Top ten countries

Norway
Sweden
Australia
Canada
Netherlands
Belgium
Iceland
United States
Japan
Ireland

About the high taxes - well that's why I'm voting for the opposition . But even though the taxes are high, many people get some of their tax money back in various allowances.

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

That's too funny (as in ridiculous) for words. Just think though - germany has taken a tough stand on their 10%+ unemployment rate. Soon - all unemployed German women will be in the sex industry since it's one of the largest industries in the world.

In a country with roughly 80 million people and legalized prostitution, that does make sense. There are good arguments for its legalization too. However, this was the stupidest thing I've seen all week.

"Why shouldn't I look for employees through the job centre when I pay my taxes just like anybody else?" said Miss Ulyanova.

I don't care if she uses a job centre, but the waitress should have been allowed to turn down the job without losing her unemployment cheque.

[Twista]

Ireland is an interesting entry on that list. Although i has undergone tremendous improvements over the last 10 years. For example, Dublins public transport is by the far the best ive seen!

Is Norway first?

[Jonathan]

Originally Posted by Twista

Ireland is an interesting entry on that list. Although i has undergone tremendous improvements over the last 10 years. For example, Dublins public transport is by the far the best ive seen!

Is Norway first?

Those are the usual countries that you find on lists like this one - The Nordic and Benelux countries, the US, Canada and Australia. Ireland is indeed an interesting entry, they've accomplished a lot in just a few years.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

well, if that doesn't say 'up yopurs' to anti-left of centre politics, i dont know what does at this precise moment, though if i am given a bit of time, i can discover new and convincing arguements

[Twista]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

Those are the usual countries that you find on lists like this one - The Nordic and Benelux countries, the US, Canada and Australia. Ireland is indeed an interesting entry, they've accomplished a lot in just a few years.

Do you have the bottom 10 countries there? ( That sounds bad... "least developed" would sound more PC ).

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

I don't know where you got the idea that Americans have a "much higher standard of living". Of course, it is hard to measure but most reports place Sweden at the very top of the list of countries with the highest standard - above the US.

This is a draft from the UN Human Development Index Report from last year. It is widely recognised as a good report on the well-being in the countries in the world. Things like poverty, literacy, education and life expectancy are taken into account: About the high taxes - well that's why I'm voting for the opposition . But even though the taxes are high, many people get some of their tax money back in various allowances.

Actually there are many ways to determine standard of living. There was a study done in sweden that shows that actually the US has by far the higher standard of living. It also points out that if the EU 15 was one of the US states - it would be considered one of the poorest states - actually the 5th poorest state. You can read the report here - EU Versus US(pdf)

What does it mean to be poor in the USA? Major living standard surveys carried out in the USA at regular intervals show the poor to have a surprisingly high standard of living; see Table 3:2. A large proportion own their homes and have one or more cars. Domestic appliances of different kinds are also relatively common, as are one or more TV sets complete with video or DVD. Material prosperity, in other words, is high and not associated with the material standard of living which many people in Europe probably associate with poverty. Good economic development, in other words, results in even poor people being relatively well off. Quite simply, it is better to be poor in a rich country than in a poor one.

Another indicator of the relatively good material standard of living among the American poor can be obtained by comparing dwelling space among poor households in the USA with average dwelling space in Europe. Table 3:3 compares dwelling space in various countries. Average total dwelling space in Europe is just under 1,000 sq. ft. In the USA it is 1,875 sq. ft for the average household and 1,200 sq. ft for poor households. Adjusting for size of household, one finds that poor households in the USA have slightly more dwelling space than the average European. The average American household has a home that is 80 per cent larger than its average European counterpart. Europeans, in other words, are more crowded in an American perspective.

ojne thing they do is even out the comparisons - they break down the per captia GDP and compare it and they compare each of the major 15 states of the EU with the individual states of the US.

According to the report -

Sweden vs USA
Sweden as a whole would be seventh poorest as a state of the USA.
Even the Stockholm region falls short of the US average, and nearly all other
regions have a per capita GDP below that of the very poorest state of the USA.

[edit]If you don't get your per capita GDP up - you won't have the money to support all your social benefits - since those come from the taxes that are earned through the population and people working[/edit]

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

well, if that doesn't say 'up yopurs' to anti-left of centre politics, i dont know what does at this precise moment, though if i am given a bit of time, i can discover new and convincing arguements

Well that's not quite how I would put it... but I am a fan of socialism and a high standard of living.

Is it really wrong to not be a fan of a high standard of living though? Just to play the devil's advocate, the USA is on the list. I don't think it's morally wrong to favour right-of-centre policies, but this might lead to a lower standard of living (than having socialist policies) in the same country.

Also take "standard of living" - this term could be up for debate too.

[Nurvingiel]

Sweden vs USA
Sweden as a whole would be seventh poorest as a state of the USA.
Even the Stockholm region falls short of the US average, and nearly all other
regions have a per capita GDP below that of the very poorest state of the USA.

I have never lived in the United States, but I feel that I can defend Sweden here. I am a penniless student, and I live in a newish, attractive, pleasant, warm student appartment where a corridor shares an extremely well-equipped kitchen. The rent is quite reasonable.
Tuition is free here. Free!

The Gross Domestic Product is not the be-all-end-all of economics, but that's just my opinion.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

I have never lived in the United States, but I feel that I can defend Sweden here. I am a penniless student, and I live in a newish, attractive, pleasant, warm student appartment where a corridor shares an extremely well-equipped kitchen. The rent is quite reasonable.
Tuition is free here. Free!

The Gross Domestic Product is not the be-all-end-all of economics, but that's just my opinion.

That's great and what do you think enables countries to PAY for all the social programs? Do you think the money comes out of the sky? It's directly affected by per capita GDP and if that is low - then it puts a burden on the social programs a country offers.