Legalization of Drugs Debate

[Millane]

hmm but maybe the high prices for drugs is the best deterrent, i think that most people would not steal to buy drugs, in the small population that are serious addicts many wouldnt go to a criminal extreme to get money, and those that would a lot wouldnt care if the price was lowered they would think well i can still get around using MY money to buy drugs even if they are cheaper, i can keep my money and steal to buy MORE drugs...
heres an interesting thought i would not think it that unfair to compare the number of drug addicts who steal to support their addiction to the number of gambling addicts who steal to support theirs, now why dont we make both illegal maybe the government really is too stupid to realise they could make money by legalising drugs or maybe they have some sort of *shock horror* MORALITY

[The Gaffer]

Originally posted by Millane
I have heard that in some places in Europe there are bars where you can order a bong is this true?

Yes, it's true. Amsterdam's your place. Quite a good idea, actually, given that one of the most damaging consequences of marijuana use is that it leads to tobacco addiction.

It makes much more sense to take it drug-by-drug. However, there needs to be a rational debate about it and I don't think that either side is in a state to do that yet. A lot of the "pro-drug" views are based on outdated concepts of the effects. Your average sixties hippie would have their head blown off by the skunk that people are smoking these days.

Evidence is just starting to accumulate that marjuana can cause mental health problems in people who are predisposed to them.

Some drugs I wouldn't recommend legalising at all, e.g. LSD: some people simply should not even try it.

And I don't think that the harms of drug use are confined to the user: it affects families, friends, people who get run over by someone hepped up on goof balls, etc.

Having said all that, I generally tend towards the "informed choice" view wherever possible. I think that people will generally choose to do the sensible thing.

[Millane]

Just an entirely irrelevant question to everyone, LSD reminded me of it, if you could experiance a "trip" but in full safeness (all danger eliminated both by chemical **** ups and falling over etc ) would you do it. I remember vaguely having a conversation with Lin about it, she of course wouldnt im all for it...

Quite a good idea, actually, given that one of the most damaging consequences of marijuana use is that it leads to tobacco addiction.

confused how is this a good idea????

[brownjenkins]

i'm not arguing at all that drugs are not bad for you (double negative )... they are very bad for you in many ways... and the people around you... as is gambling, overeating, or just about any other over-obsession

my point is that the whole 'illegality' aspect makes matters worse... in the early-80s cocaine was expensive, about $50 for a small amount, and around $150 for enough to do with a few friends... the result... crack was developed, a cheap, and arguably more dangerous substitute (mostly due to inconsistant manufacture)

legalization will not make using drugs any less dangerous... but it will take the danger out of obtaining them

[Insidious Rex]

but Im in favor of keeping crack illegal for the same reason im in favor of keeping saturday night specials illegal: because they have incredible potential to really do some serious fatal damage. sure its inconsistant that pot is illegal while a drug like alcohol is advertised from the mountain tops to kids by multi billion dollar companies. but heroin or meth or crack is another thing entirely. legalize pot if you like. take that segment of state money and resources it takes to deal with pot heads and pot dealers and turn it to another more useful direction like treatment and education. but no sense legalizing the seriously hard drugs. two wrongs dont make a right.

[Lizra]

Originally posted by Millane
Just an entirely irrelevant question to everyone, LSD reminded me of it, if you could experiance a "trip" but in full safeness (all danger eliminated both by chemical **** ups and falling over etc ) would you do it. I remember vaguely having a conversation with Lin about it, she of course wouldnt im all for it...
confused how is this a good idea????

Nope, it's terrifying. You lose "your" brain. If you don't have valid perceptions, what do you have? (fear, in my case)

[The Gaffer]

Originally posted by Millane
confused how is this a good idea????

If you're going to smoke marijuana, you may as well remove the most harmful ingredient: the tobacco. There's been a few studies (especially in Australia, btw, who are producing some of the best research in drug addiction at the moment) that have shown that smoking dope led people to get addicted to tobacco.

[Millane]

Originally posted by The Gaffer
If you're going to smoke marijuana, you may as well remove the most harmful ingredient: the tobacco. There's been a few studies (especially in Australia, btw, who are producing some of the best research in drug addiction at the moment) that have shown that smoking dope led people to get addicted to tobacco.

yeah but even with bongs you use tobacco we're not saying tobacco is more harmful than marijuana now are we?

[QueenAnnesLace]

Speaking about buying or ordering bongs there are two stores near where I live that sell that stuff. Pipes, steam rollers, bongs etc. I guess they are allowed as long as they sell a packet of tobacco with it. Drugs shouldn't be legal. I mean there are enough legal prescription drugs around that people misuse yet alone making illegal ones legal. I've seen too many people ruin their lives by using drugs and it doesn't just ruin theirs but everyone around them too.

[QueenAnnesLace]

And as for tobacco (cigerettes) being more harmful than marijuana, it is. They put like hundreds of other chemicals in cigerettes. Marijuana is just picked and smoked unless someone laces it with something else. I think cigerettes are way more addictive than marijuana.

[Sister Golden Hair]

They say that cigarettes are one of the most addictive things out there. It is easier to quit most drugs than cigarettes. I don't see a big problem legalizing marijuana. Plus the government could tax the hell out of it and make a ton of money like they do with cigarettes. One thing I have heard though, is that they already make a fortune in illegal drug busts every day, nationwide, by confiscating various different drugs including marijuana and thousands of dollars made in deals.

[QueenAnnesLace]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
They say that cigarettes are one of the most addictive things out there. It is easier to quit most drugs than cigarettes. I don't see a big problem legalizing marijuana. Plus the government could tax the hell out of it and make a ton of money like they do with cigarettes. One thing I have heard though, is that they already make a fortune in illegal drug busts every day, nationwide, by confiscating various different drugs including marijuana and thousands of dollars made in deals.

Well of course they make lots of $ from it still being illegal. They clean the $ and put it back into circulation. They sell property bought from drugs in sheriffs sales etc. Did anyone know that 80 % of U.S. dollars have traces of cocaine on them?

[Radagast]

Yes, I've heard the cocaine-banknote thing before, though I doubt it is as high as 80%- that would be incredible.

[The Gaffer]

There's not enough evidence to say definitively that marijuana on its own is less harmful than tobacco (it's usually smoked with tobacco of course), but, given what we know about tobacco, it's got a heck of a long way to go to catch up. Put simply, if you smoke cigarettes, there's a 50% chance it'll kill you. Imagine the headlines if any illegal drug had those statistics.

How ironic that you have to buy tobacco with your bong; it's like insisting that you chow down a bunch of pork fat every time you buy low fat margarine.

We do know that tobacco is very much more addictive than marijuana. While the general perception that marijuana is not addictive at all is probably not quite true, it's nowhere near as addictive as nicotine, which is harder than heroin to quit.

[QueenAnnesLace]

I don't know anyone that smokes marijuana that smokes it along with tobacco. The most I've heard is people putting it in cigars and calling it a blunt.

[brownjenkins]

smoking marijuana mixed with tobacco is very common in europe... it is almost unheardof in the US... which may explain the differing perceptions here

in part, it may be due to the fact that, outside certain countries, marijuana in quanity is harder to come by cheaply in europe... so the 'mixing' was a way to stretch it out

on the rest, my point again is that i don't really think making drugs illegal decreases availability or use... studies throughout the 'drug war' in the US show little, if no, variation in use (it is hard to tell if, during that point in time, people were just less willing to admit they used drugs)

but i know without a doubt that illegalization adds a whole new dimension of money and crime to the whole issue, outside of the obvious direct effects of drugs... i guess i see drug abuse more as a disease than a crime... would it make sense to make sex illegal in order to prevent aids in a place like africa?

[Ragnarok]

They way I see it doesn't matter whether drugs are legalized because there is no stopping it. Whether you like it or not, people will find a way to smuggle in drugs and have been doing so for years. I just graduated high school and to tell you the truth I could have gotten any drug that I wanted with one phone call. The fact is drugs will always be unsafe and available to kids/teenagers, it doesn't matter if they are legal or illegal. If you think that your children won't be exposed to drugs because they are illegal, you are completely ignorant. Making drugs illegal has only caused other serious problems. It is sad because the illegalization of drugs has done nothing to stop the demand for nor decrease the supply. Either way you can't win.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by QueenAnnesLace
I don't know anyone that smokes marijuana that smokes it along with tobacco. The most I've heard is people putting it in cigars and calling it a blunt.

Yea, but when you roll a blunt you empty out all of the tobacco, so its all marijuana. Actually, if you mix the right amount of marijuana and tobacco into a blunt it will hide the smell of marijuana.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by The Gaffer
There's not enough evidence to say definitively that marijuana on its own is less harmful than tobacco (it's usually smoked with tobacco of course), but, given what we know about tobacco, it's got a heck of a long way to go to catch up. Put simply, if you smoke cigarettes, there's a 50% chance it'll kill you. Imagine the headlines if any illegal drug had those statistics.

How ironic that you have to buy tobacco with your bong; it's like insisting that you chow down a bunch of pork fat every time you buy low fat margarine.

We do know that tobacco is very much more addictive than marijuana. While the general perception that marijuana is not addictive at all is probably not quite true, it's nowhere near as addictive as nicotine, which is harder than heroin to quit.

It is legal in the United States to own a bong as long as there is no trace of drugs in/on it, such as the res for marijuana. So if you walk out of a head shop with a bong in your hand, a police officer couldn't do a thing about it.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Ragnarok
Yea, but when you roll a blunt you empty out all of the tobacco, so its all marijuana. Actually, if you mix the right amount of marijuana and tobacco into a blunt it will hide the smell of marijuana.

I have a question. You know those thin cigar looking things, Black and Milds? They use those a lot to make blunts. I have heard also that if you take out all the tobacco and this paper that's inside of them, and then put all the tobacco back, that it gives you a small kind of high. What's the deal on that, anyone know?