05-15-2012, 09:47 AM | #21 | |
Entmoot Minister of Foreign Affairs
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Copenhagen
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Why and when do men rebel? Are the decisions made through a free will, and if so, on what basis? Do you go to arms on the basis of a need (i.e. the need to protect yourself, your family, your ideology?), on the basis of greed (i.e. is there some economic gain to be drawn from becoming a rebel, or an insurgent, a warrior?) or is based on grievance (you feel an injustice, an inequality, inferiority)? Perhaps Sauron didn't force all of his 'allies'. Perhaps he instead made them aware of an opportunity that allowed for a decent situation as to account for their needs, greeds and grievances. Rationally, and on the basis of a free will.
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"Well, thief! I smell you and I feel your air. I hear your breath. Come along! Help yourself again, there is plenty and to spare." Last edited by Coffeehouse : 05-15-2012 at 09:48 AM. Reason: Spelling |
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05-17-2012, 11:54 PM | #22 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ilha Formosa
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Even the orcs of Moria weren't under Sauron's control- the ones who helped capture Pippin and Merry were motivated by revenge, and were quite willing to defy both Sauron's and Saruman's agents.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill Last edited by GrayMouser : 05-17-2012 at 11:57 PM. |
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05-24-2012, 10:03 PM | #23 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: LI-woods, NY
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Of course there was a free will among Sauron's followers. They were choosing between the lesser of two evils. For them the memories of what had happened to lands and domains bordering with Gondor when this realm was high and mighty, probably, did not fade away with time. ..."Gondor reached the summit of its power. The realm then extended north to Celebrant and the south eaves of Mirkwood;west to the Greyflood;east to the inland Sea of Rhun; south to the river Harnen, and hence along the coast to the peninsula and haven of Umbar." Gondor's appetite grew, as grew its expansion and plundering of seized territories. Therefore the wealth and power of Gondor reached to such proportions, when «precious stones are pebbles in Gondor for children to play with.“ Gondor did not share its wealth even with poor and striving compatriots from Arnor, not to mention men with lesser than numenorian blood. And its vassals were keept in a tight fist "...the kings of the Harad did homage to Gondor, and their sons lived as hostages in the court its Kings..." , thus eliminating any attempts of uncooperation from the defeated rulers . Gondoreans "won much territory eastwards" droving the "wild men" and Easterlings (later all of them united together as Wainriders) out of their native territories, which they were ceaselessly striving to regain. Wild-men and Druedain was not evil, but they were hunted "like beasts ". Orcs were always fighting to the end, because they knew none of them will be spared by do-gooders Elves and Dunedain, Gandalf and Co, ironically by anyone who supposedly was serving good. Who would feel much love toward someone who was looking at you as a lesser human and at every opportunity is trying to oppress you? Sauron did not distort the free will of his allies. He just took them under his protection.
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Uruk-hai, or the journey to there. Last edited by Olmer : 05-24-2012 at 11:06 PM. |
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05-27-2012, 03:25 AM | #24 | ||
Entmoot Minister of Foreign Affairs
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No doubt the average orc assumes the worst and crudest characterizations of any creature in ME, but perhaps they can be forgiven for being pscyhological and societal junk-grade after persistent abuse, perscecution and enslavement. If they do act with a free will, addressing personal and collective grievances instead of following orders from Orthanc or Barad-Dur, it is a testimony to the 'weakness' of the forces that purportedly should have molded and delegated them to bottomless enslavement.
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"Well, thief! I smell you and I feel your air. I hear your breath. Come along! Help yourself again, there is plenty and to spare." Last edited by Coffeehouse : 05-27-2012 at 03:28 AM. |
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05-31-2012, 05:21 AM | #25 |
Hobbit
Join Date: May 2012
Location: China
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That's useful topic, get to know more details now
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