05-13-2005, 10:14 AM | #21 | |
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Actually Boromir is tragic. He was the most formidable man in ME after Aragorn (and Denethor maybe). But Fate has put him in such a place where he could do nothing to resist the lure of the One. Men were always the least resistant to ring influence, and the most powerful and strong willed were even more tempted than average ones. Nobody has even bothered to explain Boromir in detail why he could not use the One. Aragorn had been taught from childhood the story of Isildur and had time to reflect on it, I am sure he was reflecting on it over and over again. It was foolish for Erlond and Gandalf to let Boromir join the fellowship, it was criminal for Galadriel to let him continue, after she learned of his lust for the Ring. But it is quite typical for Elves to let men down. How do you think, back in the middle of the Second age, when Sauron distributed the nine rings, has any keeper of the Three bothered to warn Men about the danger of the Elven rings? I bet not! Last edited by Gordis : 05-13-2005 at 10:15 AM. |
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05-13-2005, 11:15 AM | #22 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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I agree Gordis. I also think that if Faramir had been around the Ring for the same amount of time as Boromir and been at the Council, he also would have lusted for it.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
05-13-2005, 07:35 PM | #23 |
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Well, do remember that the gifts were given SPECIFICALLY as a remembrance of Galadriel and Lothlorien. And they are parting gifts. Aragorn, long known to Galadriel and soon to be part of the family, received 2 gifts: the ring for hope, and a sheath for Anduril. Boromir, a golden belt, M&P silver belts. Expensive gifts, and we aren't told what kind of belts--mere trouser holders? belts that hold swords etc?. Legolas a bow of Lothlorien--not a bad gift either, not just a weapon which is expensive enough, but also a badge of acceptance, Sam his box of earth and mallorn seed, and Frodo--Frodo's gift seems to be the only one specifically useful for the Quest. The others have a kind of passive use, and all are symbolic in some way, but Frodo's was specifically prepared and given for the Quest.
So what would the belts signify? Well, belts gird one's loins (courage), hold weapons as well as pants, and are expensive having been made out of gold and silver--worthy gifts for worthy men. |
05-13-2005, 09:11 PM | #24 | |
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05-16-2005, 01:04 AM | #25 | |
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Nothing surprising if he, as experienced in the war with Sauron commander, did not believe in this rag-tag's ability to breach Saurons bastion! He knew the terrain and Sauron's capabilities much better than anybody else. Nobody was brave enough to oppose the decision of the Elves. Only Boromir had the guts to stand up and voice his opinion, for which he gained in my eyes much higher respect then Aragorn. The fact that he withstood the Ring's allure longer than so hight -estimed and so unfailable Galadriel somehow is passing unnoticed.What would she do if would has been in close proximity to the Ring for such long time, when she almost grabbed it at the first sight! |
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05-16-2005, 01:29 AM | #26 | |
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Olmer makes a good point here. Boromir's "fall" was not one of greed, it was one of pride. He thought that he or his father would prove able to master the Ring and by mastering it throw down Sauron and so save Gondor and the rest of the Free Peoples of Middle Earth. Misguided intentions, but good ones nonetheless. The nature of the Ring was to take good intentions and twist them to evil ends, as Gandalf himself indicates when he describes what would happen should he (or Saruman) take the Ring. So I have to disagree that the gold belt signifies anything to do with greed or moral failure or "uselessness." Naturally I also disagree with Olmer's reading of Boromir vs. Aragorn. Boromir was young, and Boromir had a point: how long does one need to be a "steward" when there is no king who will return? The quest was a hopeless one, but so equally, if not more so, would be turning aside to take the Ring to Gondor and expect a man, Numenorean or not, to master the Ring in time to be a threat to Sauron. Aragorn eschewed the Ring and the path to power, and if any man could have mastered the Ring it would be he (after all he likewise wrested the palantir from Sauron's control) and he certainly had greater claim on the Ring than Boromir by lineage and for all the same reasons, had the greater spirit, knowledge, and insight. So, yes, honor Boromir for his courage, but don't take from Aragorn for his part. |
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05-17-2005, 02:47 AM | #27 |
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I agree with you Olmer, apart from the Boromir vs Aragorn part and the Galadriel part.
FB explained my POV in his post so I'll just skip straight to Galadriel. I think it is unfair that you compare her 'lust' for the Ring with Boromir's. Boromir wanted the Ring to help his country and his land, but he didn't know the Rings potential and full power whereas Galadriel did. Naturally a object of high power attracts for attention and creates more lust than one of little power.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
05-19-2005, 08:50 PM | #28 |
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Yet you digress, the point of the matter is not Boromirs decent or Galadriels, but what the purpose of the golden belt given to Boromir was? I stand by my theory because pride can be born from and feeds off of greed. Greed for more renown, more respect from his people, greed for the defence of his land... never does he mention the protection of theelven kingdoms, or of Rohan, or of anywhere but Gondor... his pride is born of greed and they both feed and develop from each other.
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05-20-2005, 01:03 AM | #29 | |
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[QUOTE=Halbarad of the Dunedain]Yet you digress, the point of the matter is not Boromirs decent or Galadriels, but what the purpose of the golden belt given to Boromir was?[/QUOTE}
What if it is nothing beyond what Galadriel said it was? A remembrance of Lothlorien? Quote:
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05-20-2005, 02:30 AM | #30 |
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Yet you did not say that my statments were wrong, just not neccessary, persay. Yet if Bormoir took the ring and defeated Sauron and saved his lands... would Rohan be safe? I think not, Boromirs pride and greed would lead him to conquest, to domminate over Rohan, and Arthedian, and anything else he could. As he says, "It could have been mine, it should have been mine!" not it should have been gondors, for gondor... its greed... the ring makes everyones greed and lust come out more but that was Boromirs underlying flaw... greed for more power, more influence, more followers, more status!
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05-20-2005, 08:21 AM | #31 | |
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This I think would mean different things to different people. Sam would have an interest in Gardens across ME, Gollum would have fish morning, noon, night. Boromir would have Gondor become an invincible country secure against all the rest. (etc.)
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Sincerely, Anthony 'Many are my names in many countries,' he said. 'Mithrandir among the Elves, Tharkûn to the Drarves; Olórin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, in the South Incánus, in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not.' Faramir What nobler employment, or more valuable to the state, than that of the man who instructs the rising generation? Cicero (106BC-43BC) |
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05-20-2005, 10:35 AM | #32 | |
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And why should he care for defence of Elven kingdoms. Had Elves ever helped Gondor? And, suppose you are right about the meaning of the belt. So Pippin &Merry got their belts to emphasize THEIR greed? Last edited by CrazySquirrel : 05-20-2005 at 10:37 AM. |
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05-20-2005, 12:18 PM | #33 | |
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05-20-2005, 12:20 PM | #34 | |
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05-22-2005, 09:06 AM | #35 | |
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05-22-2005, 12:35 PM | #36 | ||
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Galadriel definately knew of such bleak perspective for Sam, but nevertheless she gives him totally useless for the quest box , like he had not enough stuff to carry. Even if it was kind of encouragement to give him hopes for coming back, I still think that it was a cruel mockery to burden somebody with useless and uncomfortable to carry stuff. After all she could give the earth and etc. after his return from Mordor. Quote:
Of course he DID NOT KNOW know about Galadriel's hair! Otherwise he would ask for something less valuable, like her nails clippings for instance. About Galadriel's refusal you can read in the "UT". Last edited by Olmer : 05-22-2005 at 12:41 PM. |
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05-22-2005, 01:27 PM | #37 | |
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Sincerely, Anthony 'Many are my names in many countries,' he said. 'Mithrandir among the Elves, Tharkûn to the Drarves; Olórin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, in the South Incánus, in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not.' Faramir What nobler employment, or more valuable to the state, than that of the man who instructs the rising generation? Cicero (106BC-43BC) |
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05-22-2005, 03:25 PM | #38 | |
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05-22-2005, 03:42 PM | #39 | |
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05-22-2005, 03:46 PM | #40 |
Lady of the Ulairi
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Well, you despise Galadriel more than I do! Than IF you are right, she would hardly think of Sam more than "of a worm in the mud". Would she really bother to mock him?
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