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07-04-2004, 05:40 PM | #21 | |||
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Great write-up JD. (Couldn't resist taking a couple digs at the movie eh? )
Chapter 5: I agree that Chapter 5 is extremely important in solidifying the Hobbit's friendship. One aspect that I also feel is brought out in this chapter is how Merry, Frodo, and Pippin are friends with Sam on a different level. Your own quote outlines this perfectly for me. Quote:
Pippin refers to himself and Merry separately from Sam. This subtle difference indicates the class difference present in their friendship. The nature of their friendship changes over the course of the book, but at this point, Frodo, Merry and Pippin are good friends. Sam is also a friend to all of them, but is also regarded as Frodo's servant since he's his gardener. This is what Hobbit culture is like, and it's something we certainly have no concept of in today's Canadian society (I can't speak for anyone else's country). There's the gentlehobbits, who are like a class above regular Hobbits. Sam is a regular Hobbit, and Frodo, Merry and Pippin, who are all related, are the upper class - gentlehobbits. I believe it's the Gaffer who refers to Frodo as "a real gentlehobbit". I'm not sure if this is necessarily a positive or negative aspect, but it's certainly an important factor. Would Sam's loyalty to Frodo have been as strong if he hadn't been his servant originally? By the time they reached Mount Doom, they were definitely great friends and equals. Even then, I don't feel the servant-master aspect of their relationship was entirely erased. (Insert apropriate quote here.) Pippin and Merry probably regarded him as an equal by the end, possibly before that. In the Scouring of the Shire, Merry, Sam, and Pippin all distinguished themselves equally in battle, and Sam later went on to become Mayor of Hobbiton many times (11?). All this is not to say that Merry, Pippin, and Frodo looked down on Sam. They were equals, but at the same time, of different classes. I don't understand the concept of class and therefore can't explain it, but I do believe it was an important factor in the friendship of the four Hobbits. Chapter 6: What you say about the Old Forest not adding to much to the characterization or the plot of the story is interesting. Compared to many other chapters in the book, there isn't a lot of character development. The Old Forest is an elaborate plot device. It serves to introduce Tom Bombadil (also a plot device), and to find a plausible explanation as to why the Nazgul totally lost their trail until Bree. The Old Forest let the Hobbits give the Black Riders the slip. It introduced Tom, without whom they obviously wouldn't have been able to get through the Barrow-Downs. Here is also where Merry receives the blade which helped kill the Nazgul Captain later. All of these are important devices to advancing the story, and Tolkien deliveres them in his typical fashion - exciting, subtle, and totally involving the reader.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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07-05-2004, 12:32 PM | #22 |
Elf Lord
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Good points, Nurv.
I think of Chapter 6 as the start of the kind of spiritual sub-plot. [BTW, Valandil, I don't think of this in a negative way either. The fact that Tom talks in silly rhymes just adds to the extremity of it. It's sillier and more serious than the mundane Shire. Let's face it, the idea of halflings living in a hole in the ground is pretty silly to begin with...] It also shatters the cosy familiarity of the Shire. Suddenly the world is very different, very "Other" and the hobbits are helpless wanderers. Tolkien repeatedly uses the device in LOTR of saying that something "seems" to be the case (or "as if" or "like") when there's a very strong implication that they actually are literally the case. An example here being the ruts and vegetation that seem to give way to the right and down, but not to the left and up. Tom later states that it's hard for hobbits to escape Old Man Willow's traps: a pretty strong indication that this "seeming" was actually true. This ambiguity adds hugely to the fun. That seems to be a sensible thing to say about this chapter.. Last edited by The Gaffer : 07-05-2004 at 12:35 PM. |
07-05-2004, 11:30 PM | #23 | |
Elf Lord
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Here is my observation.
Mostly of it have been already mentioned and discussed, but any way, I'm copying from my old notes. Maybe a few things will be of some interest. Quote:
Last edited by Olmer : 07-08-2004 at 09:12 AM. |
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07-06-2004, 06:13 PM | #24 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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07-07-2004, 10:25 PM | #25 | ||
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Lol Rian.
Nice notes Olmer *impressed*. I think you made some very good observations there, backed up with appropriate quotes. The bath scene is one that I had wondered about. Is it normal for Hobbits to have three bathtubs in their homes? (Whether holes or countrified houses.) As for the unresolved house issue, I think this is one of those things that the author doesn't have to write about to explain. Frodo is sensible and thoughtful, so he probably gave it to Fatty Bolger (or Merry or someone) upon his return to the Shire, after they sorted our Sharkey and his men.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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07-07-2004, 11:59 PM | #26 | |
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07-10-2004, 04:51 PM | #27 | ||
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I'm sure you're right there Forkbeard, good thinking. This means it would take a great deal of effort to heat the water for three separate baths! Probably on ordinary occasions they would take turns in one bath, starting with the cleanest probably.
... the eldest first or the quickest first? Either way you are last Pippin... (or something like that).
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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07-10-2004, 06:37 PM | #28 |
Elf Lord
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I have to confess that the bath song is one of my favorite cozy moments from these early chapters.
Really don't have anything to add to the excellent discussion here. Just wanted to let y'all know that I've been enjoying and learning from everyone's insights. |
07-13-2004, 08:01 PM | #29 | |
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07-14-2004, 02:34 AM | #30 |
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I've thought about this too Elanor. In one of the first chapters it is told that children loved to come to Bag End and listen to Bilbo's stories, and that many of them continued to visit Frodo after Bilbo was gone. I think Frodo, Merry and Pip found together because they were alike in many ways, and different from the other Hobbits, in Hobbiton at least. 20 years is a considerable age difference, but the age difference between Bilbo and Frodo was 78 years, which is quite different.
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08-09-2004, 07:00 AM | #31 | |
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Quote:
And untill here in the book you don't yet get the idea that the riders are a terrible and deadly evil. Sure, they're creepy, they have a sinister dress code and little or no manners. Trying to run over Farmer Maggot wasn't very polite of them. But they hadn't gone chopping off heads of Hobbits that crossed their path at night just yet. But with what the Hobbits knew about them then, I doubt they considered a violent break-in by the riders in the Crickhollow-house possible. Further I don't think Fatty had to 'play' Frodo himself. All he would have to do was to make the house look lived in and occupied. And if visitors came to see Frodo he could say that Frodo was unavailable for the moment because he was taking a nap, doing some important writing or taking a walk in the countryside, something like that. Fatty would be able to keep that up for a reasonable period of time before it came out, long enough to give Frodo time to put enough distance between him and the Shire. Fatty was quite safe in that role, although after the raid on the house I doubt he would have felt that way!
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