Stone Giants

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Attalus

Interesting thread. I have always just pigeonholed the Stone-giants off in the "Things Tolkien put in the Hobbit that he wouldn't if he had written it later, like naming a troll Bill" folder. In retrospect, I think that you all are right, they really were trolls under another name.

So do you think Gandalf was hoping to find a 'more or less decent troll' to plug up the goblins' tunnel?

EDIT: Oops! Just re-read Wayfarer's post... he makes a somewhat reasonable hypothesis. I still disagree though. I suspect that when initially writing 'The Hobbit' that Tolkien envisioned a world with a very wide array of all the sorts of creatures encountered in 'fairy tales' - and that he was only giving a glimpse, only touching on some of them, with what he wrote in that particular story.

[Attalus]

*Puts Stone Giants back in the "Things Tolkien put in The Hobbit that he wouldn't if he had written it later, like naming a troll Bill" folder.*

[barrelrider110]

The Giants of Norse legends lived in an abode called Jotunheim (giant-home). Other overworldy realms includes Alfheim, home of the light-elves (ljósalfar), Svartalfheim, home of the dark-elves, and Nidavellr, the mines of the dwarves. In between these was Midgard (“Middle-Earth?”). These giants were huge, uncouth creatures that turned to cold, hard stone when the rays of the sun struck them. For this reason they were unable to move about the countryside except under the protection of night or a blanket of thick fog. When not feuding with the gods of Asgard. The immensely powerful Norse giants quarreled and bickered among themselves, casting their massive stone axes, boulders or stones at each other in fits of rage.

“he saw that across the valley the stone-giants were out and were hurling rocks at one another for a game, and catching them, and tossing them down into the darkness where they smashed among the trees far below, or splintered into little bits with a bang.”

Giants are mentioned extensively (13 times) in the Hobbit and should have taken a grand part in the upcoming wars, but were never developed.
Even revised, the Hobbit is so different in tone from other Middle-earth works. I agree with Attalus: the missing giants do fall into the category of "things Tolkien would not have wriiten in the story if he had written it later." Some others:
-Shouting purses (When Bilbo tries to steal a purse from the Trolls);
-Elves that appear either as silly (Rivendell), or hostile (Mirkwood);
-The narrator that denies knowledge on the Ring's nature and history (which is quite well known from the other texts);
-Radagast as Gandalf’s cousin.

The world is, “after all, full of strange creatures beyond count…”

[Halbarad of the Dunedain]

Originally Posted by barrelrider110

-Radagast as Gandalf’s cousin.

Technicaly I think Rad is Gandalf's "cousin" Considering that the Valar were in a sense related[as bro-sis type thing] their subseqent followers the maiar would be related in second ad cousins.

[barrelrider110]

You could technically say that Gandalf and Radagast are "cousins" related but not in the same sense as Pippin being Frodo's cousin. Use of the familiar term goes to show that the tone of the Hobbit is vastly different from LotR, where Gandalf might have said "Radagast the Brown, a member of my order."

[Wayfarer]

Originally Posted by barrelrider110

I agree with Attalus: the missing giants do fall into the category of "things Tolkien would not have wriiten in the story if he had written it later." Some others:
-Shouting purses (When Bilbo tries to steal a purse from the Trolls);
-Elves that appear either as silly (Rivendell), or hostile (Mirkwood);
-The narrator that denies knowledge on the Ring's nature and history (which is quite well known from the other texts);
-Radagast as Gandalf’s cousin.

To be honest...

The elves should appear silly and appear hostile at times. The fact that they do not in the Lord of the Rings is an aberration, due to the great events happening at that time. By the same token, Humans in LOTR are equally sombre and serious. Looking to the Silmarillion, we see that hostility is in fact quite natural for the elves, and I any race which cannot be silly is not one which I would call good.

No, the Elves in the Hobbit are a snapshot of what their lives would have been like when they were at rest. The LOTR and the Silmarillion, on the other hand, show their actions during momentous occassions, which we can reasonably expect to be different.


The difference in narration, as far as I know, is that the Narrator in The Hobbit addresses the audience in a more personal manner, while the narrator in the Lord of the Rings maintains a more professional manner.

This is also somewhat easy to explain, since the Hobbit was first written down by Bilbo whereas the Lord of the Rings were written down by Frodo. They can reasonably have been expected to have had different tones and styles.


Which leaves the talking purse... an object which is truthfully not out of the question, given what else we see in Middle Earth.

[barrelrider110]

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

This is also somewhat easy to explain, since the Hobbit was first written down by Bilbo whereas the Lord of the Rings were written down by Frodo. They can reasonably have been expected to have had different tones and styles.

So you're saying that there is a difference in tone. The Chapter "Riddles in the Dark" was altered to fit the events of the Hobbit into the later text, and please don't give me "Bilbo wrote this and Frodo wrote that" stuff because you just don't have an argument.

Stone Giants better fit into a fairy-tale setting, that's why they don't appear in either the Sil or LotR. Except...

Although they aren't mentioned in LotR directly, on the Redhorn Pass in "The Ring Goes South" Boromir says, "Let those call it the wind who will; there are fell voices on the air; and these stones are aimed at us."