What ommission would be most unwelcome in the next two films? - Page 2

jerseydevil · 01-24-2002, 12:14 AM

Yeah I remember - but that was just things that may happen. It doesn't mean that they would - and also - going by the book (which I know is the wrong thing to do after seeing FOTR), there were no orcs in the Scouring of the Shire. Nor were the hobbits enslaved like that.

In the Mirror of Galadriel in the book Sam just sees Ted Sandyman cutting down trees and"the Old Mill had vanished, and a large redbrick building was being put up....There was a tall red chimney nearby. Black smoke seemed to cloud the surface of the mirror." In the book it did not have the fire and primstone that the movie showed. Another example of Jackson adding action and destruction that wasn't there.

By the way - I've always thought the Scouring of the Shire was Tolkiens way of speaking out against the destruction of nature to build industrial areas. "...they saw the new mill in all its frowning and dirty ugliness: a great brick building straddling the stream, which it fouled with steaming and stinking outflow. All along the Bywater Road every tree had been felled...Bagshot Row was a yawning sand and gravel quarry...The garden was full of huts and sheds, some so near the old westward windows that they cut off all their light. There were piles of refuse everywhere." Going by that - you'd think Hollywood would have loved to add that political statement in there. Sadly - if the Scouring of the Shire does exist in Jackson's ROTK - it will most likely be the murdering, pillaging and burning of the shire that Frodo saw in the mirror.

Arathorn · 01-24-2002, 04:54 AM

I sure hope he's not reading this thread, Jerseydevil. He might get ideas.

Agburanar · 01-24-2002, 11:30 AM

It's Sam who sees the pictures of the Shire in the mirror, and in the FOTR PJ didn't have Sam looking into the mirror. He's going to mess it all up again!

I don't think Scouring of the Shire is in the least unimportant. It shows the difference between the hobbits of the fellowship at the end of the story and what they were like at the beginning.

athelas · 01-24-2002, 11:42 AM

Arwen helps Eowyn slay Witch-king, and replaces Merry....

Even worse still, Pippin gets cut out from the battle at the black gate and is replaced by Arwen...( starts shrieking "NOOO!!!" madly)

I know it does take up time, but I hope PJ doesn't leave out all the Sam-Gollum interactions and focus too much on Frodo. That would make the journey to mount doom leg rather depressing and boring.

Agburanar · 01-24-2002, 11:53 AM

Opening titles to Return of the King...

Scene opens on the Black gate.

Arwen gallops up on horse.

Pan with Arwen as she flees from Nazgul, rides up the slopes of Orodruin, chucks the ring into the fire and then flies off to Barad-dur, breaks it down, scares off Sauron's shadowy ghost thing and plants a forest in Mordor.

End titles.

rollingskullandbones · 01-25-2002, 10:29 PM

This is a question and I was wondering how ROTK will end and yes I read the book. Will they go like to the chapter before they return to Isengard or what if they cut out the Scouring of the Shire because I thought that the Scouring of the Shire and The Gray Havens gave a thought of closing to you.

bropous · 01-27-2002, 12:48 PM

Welcome to the Moot, rollingskullandbones!

Well, I read on one post somewhere that one of the actors said in an interview that the Grey Havens was the msot moving scene of the whole [three-part] film, so hopefully at least that part is included. Remember, Arwen says "that which grace has given me, let it pass to him" [paraphrased] of Frodo at the Fords of Bruinen, and there is the tie-in there to have him take her place in the Undying Lands.

I'm just unsettled by the "Saruman on a Spike" rumors, that would really screw up the whole thing for me, even more than the Arwen role expansion.

Evenstar · 01-27-2002, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Captain Stern
I have a horrible fear that in the battle with the Witch King in ROTK, Merry won't be present and Eowyn will defeat him single handedly

If they miss that Merry saved her I will be sooo upset!!!

ann · 01-28-2002, 12:16 AM

I really hope they don't cut out any details about the paths of the dead. That part is one of my favorites!

Agburanar · 01-28-2002, 05:02 AM

No, I don't think they'll miss it out, but you might want to be on your guard against some 'walking dead' style zombies!

***IronParrot*** · 02-23-2002, 01:54 AM

I'll tell you what would be the most unwelcome, most dreaded omission in the next two films.

The destruction of the One Ring.

Evenstar · 02-23-2002, 03:58 AM

LOL!!!

Aragorns Dimple · 02-23-2002, 07:42 AM

Just for all the fangirls out there who missed Elijah taking his shirt off in FoTR, maybe you will get to see him naked rolled up in a blanket in the Tower when he is captured by Shagrat and Gorbag (what excellent names!).

I wanna see Sam bust in and save him, then see Frodo go all freaky when he says he took his ring.."you took my ring? DUDE? YOU TOOK MY RING!?" *grows fangs and snarls, Bilbo-like.

Arathorn · 02-23-2002, 10:21 AM

They'll probably put in a short double with whelts from the orc whip. Woouldn't want Mr EW's baby soft skin to get damaged and all.

***IronParrot*** · 02-23-2002, 04:10 PM

It won't be unlike Lawrence's capture in Lawrence of Arabia, methinks.

Sween · 02-26-2002, 03:43 PM

as a person that has never read the book and never knew anything about the story before i went to see the film Scouring of the Shire of the shire would be a huge anti climax of an ending, unless it was done really well. For any movie it is important to build to the ending of the movie and have that as the most exciting part. it ends perfectally in Mordor for the mass market of people.

The only way of doing the book judice would for frodo and company to find out about the Scouring of the Shire when in mordor and get back at heist (maybe a lift of the big bird that saves Gandelf) i heard that saves them from mordor in the end anyway. once sarurman is defeted they are free to ride.....i mean sail off into the sunset.

Hate to have an hour extra on the movie when it has allready finished

LuthienTinuviel · 02-26-2002, 05:55 PM

well i hope that they have merry saving eowyn! that was another of the "hobbits are not so weak eh?" moments.

they already slughtered frodo's moment (the big one, i think) with the flight to the ford.
i hope that they don't omit sam's wounding shelob or merry or pippen being in the guard.

guess we'll have to wait and see

Gerbil · 02-27-2002, 01:01 PM

I can see some of you aren't trawling the net for information regarding the films as much as you should.

PJ has EXPLICITLY said the Scouring of the Shire is OUT.
Which leads me to believe that Saruman on a spike is TRUE.
As mentioned earlier in the thread - without Scouring Saruman's role is over.

At least they'll have the grey Havens in there... Should be, like the books, one of the saddest happy endings ever.

However, if you think Lord of the Rings is sad in places, please do read the Silmarillion. I've never cried at a book but re-reading Beren and Luthien (yet again) brought me damn close:

'For her beauty is greater than their beauty,
And her sorrow is greater than their sorrows'

(Misquote no-doubt - doing that from memory). Track down the quote and you'll understand why it's so powerful *sniffle*
The Silmarillion is as a whole just plain sad all throughout - but it makes the beautiful things about it stand out so much more.

So PLEASE! If you've finished reading Lord of the Rings, pick up The Silmarillion - it's hard going, but the rewards are endless!

Oh, and Gollum / Frodo interplay is also DEFINATELY in, although what shape or form it'll take I do not know. But I am almost certain it'll stick close to the book because there's not too much other material to work with regarding Frodo and co. Also, the part where Smeagol nearly repents of his evil ways (if it wasn't for that meddling Sam!) is a very touching moment, and of course I think PJ will play up the fact that Hobbits and Gollum are close. We've had Bilbo looking evil, it'll happen to Frodo in RotK, so I expect PJ to put Gollum going the other way in. Especially when there's very likely going to be an intro (presumably to TT, not RotK - too late for it then) showing how Smeagol became Gollum, once again emphasising their common ancestry.

Oh, and apparently Farimir's role has been plumped up a fair amount. So with any luck it'll still be Eowyn who does her deeds so lucky old Faramir gets a nice girl out of it all.

If Faramir gets a plumped up part though, I suddenly had this horrific vision of it being HIM that slays the Nazgul....... ack!

LuthienTinuviel · 02-27-2002, 07:03 PM

anyone know where i can find the silmarillon?
is that even spelled right?

well anyways, to get back on topic..

yes, i am really sure that the grey havens will be inthere.
but, i can't let go of all hope for the scouring.
i simply love itoo much.
i need to find that sad rock again!(it's in another post)

Gerbil · 02-27-2002, 07:18 PM

Sorry - no scouring.
But Havens is in for sure

As long as Merry or Pippin doesn't come up with some 'humerous' end quip I'll be happy.

To be honest the perfect end would be me leaving in tears - I know they'll probably want to Hollywoodise the ending and make it happy happy joy joy, but I found LotR to be deeply sad at the end (well, and lots of other places too!).

01-24-2002, 12:14 AM	#21
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	Yeah I remember - but that was just things that may happen. It doesn't mean that they would - and also - going by the book (which I know is the wrong thing to do after seeing FOTR), there were no orcs in the Scouring of the Shire. Nor were the hobbits enslaved like that. In the Mirror of Galadriel in the book Sam just sees Ted Sandyman cutting down trees and"the Old Mill had vanished, and a large redbrick building was being put up....There was a tall red chimney nearby. Black smoke seemed to cloud the surface of the mirror." In the book it did not have the fire and primstone that the movie showed. Another example of Jackson adding action and destruction that wasn't there. By the way - I've always thought the Scouring of the Shire was Tolkiens way of speaking out against the destruction of nature to build industrial areas. "...they saw the new mill in all its frowning and dirty ugliness: a great brick building straddling the stream, which it fouled with steaming and stinking outflow. All along the Bywater Road every tree had been felled...Bagshot Row was a yawning sand and gravel quarry...The garden was full of huts and sheds, some so near the old westward windows that they cut off all their light. There were piles of refuse everywhere." Going by that - you'd think Hollywood would have loved to add that political statement in there. Sadly - if the Scouring of the Shire does exist in Jackson's ROTK - it will most likely be the murdering, pillaging and burning of the shire that Frodo saw in the mirror. __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 01-24-2002 at 12:50 AM.

01-24-2002, 04:54 AM	#22
Arathorn Bard of Mangled Songs Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila Posts: 2,679	I sure hope he's not reading this thread, Jerseydevil. He might get ideas. __________________ Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert *Accio, Ash Nazg!* Elennuru s?la lúmenn' omentielvo* (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures...

01-24-2002, 11:42 AM	#24
athelas Enting Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The Twilight Meres Posts: 87	Arwen helps Eowyn slay Witch-king, and replaces Merry.... Even worse still, Pippin gets cut out from the battle at the black gate and is replaced by Arwen...( starts shrieking "NOOO!!!" madly) I know it does take up time, but I hope PJ doesn't leave out all the Sam-Gollum interactions and focus too much on Frodo. That would make the journey to mount doom leg rather depressing and boring. __________________ Farewell sweet earth and nortern sky, for ever blest,since here did lie and here with lissom limbs did run beneath the Moon, beneath the Sun, Lùthien Tinùviel more fair than mortal tongue can tell. Though all to ruin fell the world and were dissolved and backward hurled unmade into old abyss, yet were its making good, for this-- the dusk, the dawn, the earth, the sea-- that Lùthien for a time should be. "I am glad you are here with me. Here at the end of all things, Sam."-Frodo FRODO LIVES!!! (erm...Sam does too, right?)

01-27-2002, 12:48 PM	#27
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Welcome to the Moot, rollingskullandbones! Well, I read on one post somewhere that one of the actors said in an interview that the Grey Havens was the msot moving scene of the whole [three-part] film, so hopefully at least that part is included. Remember, Arwen says "that which grace has given me, let it pass to him" [paraphrased] of Frodo at the Fords of Bruinen, and there is the tie-in there to have him take her place in the Undying Lands. I'm just unsettled by the "Saruman on a Spike" rumors, that would really screw up the whole thing for me, even more than the Arwen role expansion. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

01-28-2002, 12:16 AM	#29
ann Sapling Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Jackson, MS Posts: 13	I really hope they don't cut out any details about the paths of the dead. That part is one of my favorites! __________________ "This quest may be attempted by the weak with as much hope as the strong. Yet such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere." -Elrond

01-24-2002, 11:30 AM	#23
Agburanar Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dorset Posts: 608	It's Sam who sees the pictures of the Shire in the mirror, and in the FOTR PJ didn't have Sam looking into the mirror. He's going to mess it all up again! I don't think Scouring of the Shire is in the least unimportant. It shows the difference between the hobbits of the fellowship at the end of the story and what they were like at the beginning.

01-24-2002, 11:53 AM	#25
Agburanar Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dorset Posts: 608	Opening titles to Return of the King... Scene opens on the Black gate. Arwen gallops up on horse. Pan with Arwen as she flees from Nazgul, rides up the slopes of Orodruin, chucks the ring into the fire and then flies off to Barad-dur, breaks it down, scares off Sauron's shadowy ghost thing and plants a forest in Mordor. End titles.

01-25-2002, 10:29 PM	#26
rollingskullandbones Sapling Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4	This is a question and I was wondering how ROTK will end and yes I read the book. Will they go like to the chapter before they return to Isengard or what if they cut out the Scouring of the Shire because I thought that the Scouring of the Shire and The Gray Havens gave a thought of closing to you.

01-28-2002, 05:02 AM	#30
Agburanar Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dorset Posts: 608	No, I don't think they'll miss it out, but you might want to be on your guard against some 'walking dead' style zombies!

02-23-2002, 01:54 AM	#31
*IronParrot* Fowl Administrator Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Calgary or Edmonton, Canada Posts: 53,420	I'll tell you what would be the most unwelcome, most dreaded omission in the next two films. The destruction of the One Ring. __________________ All of IronParrot's posts are guaranteed to be 100% intelligent and/or sarcastic, comprising no genetically modified content and tested on no cute furry little animals unless the SPCA is looking elsewhere. If you observe a failure to uphold this warranty, please contact a forum administrator immediately to receive a full refund on your Entmoot registration. Blog: Nick's Café Canadien

02-23-2002, 03:58 AM	#32
Evenstar Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Neverneverland Posts: 215	LOL!!! __________________ "Frodo, Mr Frodo," he called. "Don't leave me here alone. It's your Sam calling. Don't you go where I can't follow." FRODO LIVES !!!!

02-23-2002, 07:42 AM	#33
Aragorns Dimple Enting Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: On Viggo's Chin Posts: 77	Just for all the fangirls out there who missed Elijah taking his shirt off in FoTR, maybe you will get to see him naked rolled up in a blanket in the Tower when he is captured by Shagrat and Gorbag (what excellent names!). I wanna see Sam bust in and save him, then see Frodo go all freaky when he says he took his ring.."you took my ring? DUDE? YOU TOOK MY RING!?" *grows fangs and snarls, Bilbo-like. __________________ "Is it nice, my preciousss? Is it juicy? Is it scrumptiously crunchable?" - Gollum

02-23-2002, 10:21 AM	#34
Arathorn Bard of Mangled Songs Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila Posts: 2,679	They'll probably put in a short double with whelts from the orc whip. Woouldn't want Mr EW's baby soft skin to get damaged and all. __________________ Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert *Accio, Ash Nazg!* Elennuru s?la lúmenn' omentielvo* (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures...

02-23-2002, 04:10 PM	#35
*IronParrot* Fowl Administrator Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Calgary or Edmonton, Canada Posts: 53,420	It won't be unlike Lawrence's capture in Lawrence of Arabia, methinks. __________________ All of IronParrot's posts are guaranteed to be 100% intelligent and/or sarcastic, comprising no genetically modified content and tested on no cute furry little animals unless the SPCA is looking elsewhere. If you observe a failure to uphold this warranty, please contact a forum administrator immediately to receive a full refund on your Entmoot registration. Blog: Nick's Café Canadien

02-26-2002, 03:43 PM	#36
Sween im quite stupid Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cockermouth Posts: 2,058	Scouring of the Shire as a person that has never read the book and never knew anything about the story before i went to see the film Scouring of the Shire of the shire would be a huge anti climax of an ending, unless it was done really well. For any movie it is important to build to the ending of the movie and have that as the most exciting part. it ends perfectally in Mordor for the mass market of people. The only way of doing the book judice would for frodo and company to find out about the Scouring of the Shire when in mordor and get back at heist (maybe a lift of the big bird that saves Gandelf) i heard that saves them from mordor in the end anyway. once sarurman is defeted they are free to ride.....i mean sail off into the sunset. Hate to have an hour extra on the movie when it has allready finished __________________ Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot

02-26-2002, 05:55 PM	#37
LuthienTinuviel protector of orphaned rabbits Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Kalamazoo... yes, its a real place! Posts: 1,236	well i hope that they have merry saving eowyn! that was another of the "hobbits are not so weak eh?" moments. they already slughtered frodo's moment (the big one, i think) with the flight to the ford. i hope that they don't omit sam's wounding shelob or merry or pippen being in the guard. guess we'll have to wait and see __________________

02-27-2002, 01:01 PM	#38
Gerbil Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: London, UK Posts: 797	I can see some of you aren't trawling the net for information regarding the films as much as you should. PJ has EXPLICITLY said the Scouring of the Shire is OUT. Which leads me to believe that Saruman on a spike is TRUE. As mentioned earlier in the thread - without Scouring Saruman's role is over. At least they'll have the grey Havens in there... Should be, like the books, one of the saddest happy endings ever. However, if you think Lord of the Rings is sad in places, please do read the Silmarillion. I've never cried at a book but re-reading Beren and Luthien (yet again) brought me damn close: 'For her beauty is greater than their beauty, And her sorrow is greater than their sorrows' (Misquote no-doubt - doing that from memory). Track down the quote and you'll understand why it's so powerful sniffle The Silmarillion is as a whole just plain sad all throughout - but it makes the beautiful things about it stand out so much more. So PLEASE! If you've finished reading Lord of the Rings, pick up The Silmarillion - it's hard going, but the rewards are endless! Oh, and Gollum / Frodo interplay is also DEFINATELY in, although what shape or form it'll take I do not know. But I am almost certain it'll stick close to the book because there's not too much other material to work with regarding Frodo and co. Also, the part where Smeagol nearly repents of his evil ways (if it wasn't for that meddling Sam!) is a very touching moment, and of course I think PJ will play up the fact that Hobbits and Gollum are close. We've had Bilbo looking evil, it'll happen to Frodo in RotK, so I expect PJ to put Gollum going the other way in. Especially when there's very likely going to be an intro (presumably to TT, not RotK - too late for it then) showing how Smeagol became Gollum, once again emphasising their common ancestry. Oh, and apparently Farimir's role has been plumped up a fair amount. So with any luck it'll still be Eowyn who does her deeds so lucky old Faramir gets a nice girl out of it all. If Faramir gets a plumped up part though, I suddenly had this horrific vision of it being HIM that slays the Nazgul....... ack! __________________ Gerbil gerbil@theburrow.co.uk

02-27-2002, 07:03 PM	#39
LuthienTinuviel protector of orphaned rabbits Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Kalamazoo... yes, its a real place! Posts: 1,236	anyone know where i can find the silmarillon? is that even spelled right? well anyways, to get back on topic.. yes, i am really sure that the grey havens will be inthere. but, i can't let go of all hope for the scouring. i simply love itoo much. i need to find that sad rock again!(it's in another post) __________________

02-27-2002, 07:18 PM	#40
Gerbil Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: London, UK Posts: 797	Sorry - no scouring. But Havens is in for sure As long as Merry or Pippin doesn't come up with some 'humerous' end quip I'll be happy. To be honest the perfect end would be me leaving in tears - I know they'll probably want to Hollywoodise the ending and make it happy happy joy joy, but I found LotR to be deeply sad at the end (well, and lots of other places too!). __________________ Gerbil gerbil@theburrow.co.uk

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
The Problem with the films? They're too good.	Black Breathalizer	Lord of the Rings Movies	8	12-10-2003 01:29 PM
Loving the Films	Black Breathalizer	Lord of the Rings Movies	14	12-07-2003 04:22 PM
Will the films change fans' relationship with the books?	Black Breathalizer	Lord of the Rings Movies	66	10-14-2003 03:13 PM
2002 films (end-of-year lists/awards madness)	IronParrot	Entertainment Forum	7	01-30-2003 10:36 PM
Elemental Films announces "Elessar" project	Michael Martinez	Lord of the Rings Movies	6	06-16-2000 12:32 AM