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03-27-2003, 08:15 PM | #21 | |
Long lost mooter
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I like the point that FM brought up about the different elves and their proximities to the Valar seeming to equate to their "blessedness." It is rather complex. I think someone said somewhere that maybe the elves became nobler because of their relationship w/ the Valar. Rather than the traits being inherent, they were aquired/ developed over the long years of interaction w/ the Valar (you take on the traits of the company you keep). The Moriquendi, therefore, would have unfortunately missed out on this. Perhaps that is why Elwe changed so, because of all the Eldar, his relationship with Melian would naturally have been of a deeper nature than "leige," if you will, and so the bestowing of grace (or whatever) would have been greater and quicker. (Or his glow was because she was a heck of a lover ). Anyway, that theme also brings me back to the "mythology" idea: divine intervention being the explanation for the diaspora of the elves, as it were; the reason for the different elves in different places all over ME, with different customs and loyalties, and different fates. |
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03-27-2003, 08:29 PM | #22 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-28-2003, 03:48 AM | #23 | ||
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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Quote:
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03-28-2003, 01:06 PM | #24 | |||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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At first, I thought the word "shibboleth" meant the 'th' sound instead of the "s" sound, like the Castillian Spaniards pronounce "s", IIRC. THen I looked up the word and found it was actually from a story in the Bible, which I had read but forgotten. It basically means a test or password, but based on how certain people pronounce a word. Here's part of the def: Quote:
Anyway - so the p-looking symbol with the long upper stem (which I can't type) is called a 'thorn', and here is part of that def: Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 03-28-2003 at 01:12 PM. |
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03-28-2003, 02:46 PM | #25 | |
Long lost mooter
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I still get confused, though, because of the halls of Mandos. If an elf gets killed, he or she goes there, and aside from the exception, goes to Aman forever after being rejuvinated. But when an elf fades, he or she does not go there, but simply ceases to exist for all we know. Now, do the Avari go to the halls of Mandos when THEY are killed? I would assume not. edited due to dumb mistake in elf-kind names...see post further down. |
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03-28-2003, 05:17 PM | #26 | |||
The Tall
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Formenos
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Quote:
From theShibboleth of Fëanor Quote:
Fëanor was right in all linguistic matters. Quote:
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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03-28-2003, 07:17 PM | #27 | ||
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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03-29-2003, 08:49 AM | #28 |
Long lost mooter
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Ah, thanks for that quote. So the trick if you were the child of a Moriquendi was...to get killed. Then you'd go to Mandos instead of fading. OR maybe when they faded they went to the same place men did when they died? Is that a possibility?
EDIT: I actually meant to say AVARI: see below. |
03-29-2003, 10:09 AM | #29 | ||
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03-29-2003, 10:45 AM | #30 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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R*an, thanks for sharing your knowledge of the meaning of 'Shibboleth', I have wondered about that. I hadn't read the Þ->s part of the Shibboleth when I wondered about your 'Yeth', but I have now! Miriel used the Þ and wanted everyone in her house to do the same, and Finwë did as long as she lived. But when she died, he changed from Þ to s, and moreover, Indis chose to use s as well. So, to Fëanor, not using the little character Þ became a symbol of rejection of his mother Miriel Þerindë. What a mess out of small details! I can't help thinking Fëanor was a bit 'jumpy' and read insults where there were none.
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--Life is hard, and then we die. Last edited by Artanis : 03-29-2003 at 10:59 AM. |
03-29-2003, 11:35 AM | #31 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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03-29-2003, 02:40 PM | #32 | |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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--Life is hard, and then we die. |
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03-30-2003, 09:00 AM | #33 |
Long lost mooter
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Lol, I realize I made an error in my last two posts -- I meant to say AVARI, not Moriquendi. I'm going back and editing my posts for clarity. Sorry about that!
Hey, didn't someone tell me the refusal of the summons was the reason for the faces in the Dead Marshes? Maybe that kind of thing is what happens to the men who refuse (or like the Barrow-wights). Hey, is anyone tired of my crazy speculations yet? (don't answer that! ). |
03-30-2003, 02:51 PM | #34 | ||
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--Life is hard, and then we die. Last edited by Artanis : 03-30-2003 at 02:52 PM. |
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03-30-2003, 04:32 PM | #35 |
Long lost mooter
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03-30-2003, 08:30 PM | #36 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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Weren't there faces of Orcs and Men in the Dead Marshes, also?
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
03-30-2003, 09:52 PM | #37 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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03-30-2003, 10:18 PM | #38 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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I seem to remember Orcs, Men, and Elves.
-looks through book- Quote:
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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03-31-2003, 03:41 PM | #39 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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The quote is, "Frodo hid his eyes in his hands. 'I know not who they are; but I thought I saw there Men and Elves, and Orcs beside them.'
'Yes, yes,' said Gollum. 'All dead, all rotten. Elves and Men and Orcs. The Dead Marches.'" - "The Passage of the Marshes."
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
03-31-2003, 04:24 PM | #40 |
Long lost mooter
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I didn't mean to imply that men were the only ones down there. I was just refering to them because of SGH's query about men refusing the summons. I meant that they, like elves, apparently could if that is why the faces were there.
But orcs couldn't go because they were irredeemable, right? |