Aragorn's girls (Arwen,Eowyn)

[Strange-Looking Lurker]

About the "baby sitter" comment: I don't think Aragorn actually saw her until he was grown. I beleive that she had been in Lorien. Am I right?

[Arathorn]

My mistake on that comment from one drowsy afternoon. But what I was really aiming for was wisdom of age that many people find attractive about older people of the opposite sex. Elves have the advantage of having this wisdom (because their old by human standards) and the look physical appearance of youth.

[Earenya]

When it ultimately comes down to it, people love whom they love.

None of it has anything to say for love, I think. They fell in love and that's enough, I say. I bet if she had a choice she would take the less painful way and not love the guy. It would be so much easier. She just loved him and she couldn't change that.

(Elendil)

I agree completely.

[Varda-Me]

I love LoTR. I love Tolkien. However - he always seems to equate goodness with great beauty in his female characters. Okay, maybe Arwen was the most beautiful elf of her day. So what? What did she do? At least Eowyn did something. Of course, she was beautiful, too. All women characters in LoTR and The Sil were beautiful. Pretty is as pretty does. Again, I ask, what were Arwen's contributions?

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

What I've seen in reading LotR, and a lot of articles and other stuff about LotR, is that the books have a strong base in mythology, and there are a great deal of archetypes present. If you were to look at mythology, especially the Norse, Celtic, etc. myth that LotR is derived from, and most mythology from around the world, you would see that all the female characters, etc. are for the most part extraordinarily beautiful, or at least quite pretty, as well as having other traits. The female characters in LotR, and the Silmarillion (not that I've read Sil. yet) therefore, are based around these archetypes, which explains why they are all beautiful. You do bring up a valid point about Arwen not really doing much, Varda-me, but maybe with this rambling explanation you can see where Tolkien was coming from writing these characters. Try reading some myths, you'll see the same thing going on there. I too think it would be more interesting if Arwen did something special, like Eowyn did, which is why, I think, Peter Jackson chose to expand Arwen's role in the movies, because not only does it make more sense for the audience for Aragorn to marry her, but it proves her worth. But anyway, I was just attempting to puzzle this out myself...I don't really know what I'm talking about, I just pretend to...j/k actually, I'm doing a big research paper on mythological archetypes, and the absense of female trickster figures in mythology...so I've been doing a lot of reading....

[Varda-Me]

Gee willikers! I guess I've read plenty of myths! I wanted to major in college at one point in Greek mythology (my dad had a fit!). So, I guess, I would say that that is why I love LoTRs so much. On the other hand, I'm a bit disappointed that Tolkien didn't depart from the status quo. Still, I wouldn't change a word of anything he's written. How's that for hypocritical?

[Earniel]

Arwen may have had little to do in LOTR except waiting, but that doesn't mean that a girl had to know how to fight to amount to something. I don't think elven women were supposed to fight with swords and bows, they had other weapons. And Arwen wasn't really brought up to fight. In fact I imagine if she ever told Elrond 'Dad I want to learn how fight!' he'd have a fit. Arwen had other qualities and strenghts, she didn't need to fight to prove that. In my view that's exactly what Tolkien had in mind for her. And that's sadly enough something PJ apparently didn't quite get....

[RosieCotton]

Originally posted by Eärniel
Arwen may have had little to do in LOTR except waiting, but that doesn't mean that a girl had to know how to fight to amount to something. I don't think elven women were supposed to fight with swords and bows, they had other weapons. And Arwen wasn't really brought up to fight. In fact I imagine if she ever told Elrond 'Dad I want to learn how fight!' he'd have a fit. Arwen had other qualities and strenghts, she didn't need to fight to prove that. In my view that's exactly what Tolkien had in mind for her. And that's sadly enough something PJ apparently didn't quite get....

I agree and disagree. Arwen wasn't brought up to fight, and I respect that. She was an elf maiden. It just doesn't work that way. (Well it does in the movie, but lets not go there) Eowyn was a tougher girl, ahead of her time, and I personally think she would work out better with Aragorn. But Arwen came back from Lorien and met Aragorn years before Eowyn came along. If you're in love, you don't just dump someone off because someone else came along (well, at least you shouldn't!) I think its simple: Arwen came along first, and Aragorn didn't want to abandon her for someone else. Good for him. He'd have been a total jerk if he just dumped Arwen like that.

[sun-star]

Eowyn seems very modern and assertive to us, but she's also proud and impetuous and not able to accept difficult situations. The world is about to be taken over and she's worrying about her own frustration and unrequited love. Her character is understandable and nicely human, but Arwen is far more mature and controlled, so she would probably make a better queen of Gondor. Also, her marriage with Aragorn means the Elves have a presence in Middle Earth after the three rings have passed away.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

That is a good point, sun-star. And Arwen being more mature and controlled, well, she is an elf, and hundreds of years older then Eowyn. I did think while reading that particular part, that Eowyn was being a bit irresponsible by leaving her duties to her people, like sticking around to lead them. At the same time, though, I could totally relate with her anger at being left behind not only by Aragorn, but by her uncle and her brother, and in the end, it turned out to be a great thing that she came along with the riders, because otherwise the Witch-King would still be there. . .
And another thing--if Aragorn had decided to forget about Arwen, (and it is obvious why he didn't, from reading this thread...) then what would have happened with Faramir? Because then Eowyn ends up being happy with him, and showing her other qualities besides fighting. That is when she figures out her responsibilities.

[Earenya]

I agree completely. I think it is easy to empathize with Eowyn because we actually get to read (see) her character development, we see the "journey" her character gets to make throughout the course of the story. Essentially, we see her grow up. Arwen (as you said, sun-star) is already mature and "grown up".