Glad to be born in a "[I]western[/I] " country

[Sween]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
You would have been pretty disappointed then; evidence points to an early adaption to monogamy. Being nomadic and all.

can you not let a man have a caveman fantasy?

well that spoilt many an hourt of plesure

[markedel]

Well I've been reading reports of starvation in swaths of Africa, it makes me guilty sitting here, full from my late lunch.

[Inderjit Sanghera]

Darn skippy I am.

[Hasty Ent]

Originally posted by afro-elf
The kids in her familiy had NEVER been to a cinema, NEVER been to a mall had NEVER gone to Pizzia hut.

these are good things?

I'm happy to hear so many mooters are happy living where they do... My emotions are mixed on this issue. It's important to be grateful for your blessings, having sufficient food and shelter and peace to enjoy them, and I am truly grateful to have these things.

However, I've traveled to small impoverished villages in Eastern Europe where the utilities were erratic (if they were there at all), and the residents were all anxious to move to Western Europe or the US to earn money. I've also known recent immigrants who came to the US to earn money and could not wait to leave and go back home. They were baffled by the degree of cultural illiteracy they found in people they considered wealthy (middle class to most Americans) who knew nothing beyond shopping and sport. They were concerned by the focus on materialism, the general unfriendliness and lack of community. When I was traveling through these villages, I saw how people would gather outside in the evening and play chess, sing songs and watch their children play together. There was no money for the cinema (there was no cinema!) so social life was truly social. Is this the price we pay for economic prosperity? A community of individuals that drive alone in their SUVs to a shopping mall where they buy stuff they don't need? Where social interaction takes place in a stadium during a sporting event that is a loosely disguised advertisement to buy more stuff in that shopping mall? It saddens me to think that with all the choices economic freedom brings, this is how so many spend their time...

[afro-elf]

What's wrong with Japan AE, always seems (from afar) an interesting place to me?

I think it may have to do more with where I am working.

10 years ago I would be having a blast.

[Huan]

Afro-Elf wrote: I hope I did not come off in a condesending manner. IF you took it that way it was not my intention.

No, you weren't condescending, and neither was I being sarcastic. You made a very good argument that I wasn't taking into account when I posted. If I don't stand "corrected" per se, I stand having more to think about than when I made that post.

Coney, your reasons for being glad to live in the West only apply to some countries in that region. The socialized health care, education, and other benefits you mention are specific to your living in the UK. Maybe they hold true for nations on the Continent as well, wouldn't know. But here in the States, the "greatest country in the world," we do have SOME degree of socialized this and that, but in fact there is a much greater degree to which an American has to fend for himself than most Western European nations today.

[Coney]

Coney, your reasons for being glad to live in the West only apply to some countries in that region.

I know...and it is a shame other (all) countries don't afford the same amount of security. The idea of living in a country where if you become ill/unemployed and that situation becomes life threatening is just too horrible *shudder*... but it is a sad fact for most of the world .

Those were just some of the reasons I enjoy living in the UK

Does the USA not have similar welfare to the UK then?

[Dunadan]

Originally posted by Hasty Ent
A community of individuals that drive alone in their SUVs to a shopping mall where they buy stuff they don't need? Where social interaction takes place in a stadium during a sporting event that is a loosely disguised advertisement to buy more stuff in that shopping mall? It saddens me to think that with all the choices economic freedom brings, this is how so many spend their time...

I agree with you, Hasty One. While I've been lucky for the accident of birth which placed me in a comfortable society in which I am unlikely to starve, be tortured or bombed, that doesn't mean we should just count our blessings and be uncritical.

The things I value most are people, and increasingly find that our society (UK) places less and less value on such things, since they do not have measurable economic value. The nuclear family, being the basis of western society, also happens to be the politically weakest unit people have ever found themselves in.

What do others think?

cheers

d.

[Baby-K]

AE - just as a matter of interest, seeing how you previously mentioned that the USA,UK & European countries (excluding the Eastern block) are Western societies, but that African countries etc are not, how would you classify South Africa?

[Wayfarer]

SA was an english 'colony', right? I would presume that it would be westernized (if not completely western) as well.

[afro-elf]

Originally posted by Baby-K
AE - just as a matter of interest, seeing how you previously mentioned that the USA,UK & European countries (excluding the Eastern block) are Western societies, but that African countries etc are not, how would you classify South Africa?

Excluding SA. I would not classify Africa as such. When I was in the ME. I saw so much footage of the hell that most of Africa is in that it made be glad that African part of my ancestory was taken out of there. Meaning I do not condone the slavery that took place, but I have a better life here than I would probably had there if I was born there.

SA except for the apartied situation I would say is of the West mostly. The international press is general bad about SA. But, the SA's ( white) that I have met have all been cool and color was never an issue.

Note of warning be careful is you are a white SA in situation where there might be American Black around. I worked in a import shop awhile ago and had to diffuse a situation.

that doesn't mean we should just count our blessings and be uncritical

I concur.

SA was an english 'colony', right? I would presume that it would be westernized (if not completely western) as well.

I think that it was Dutch and the English "moved in". I would count Holland as western also.

[Elvellon]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
You would have been pretty disappointed then; evidence points to an early adaption to monogamy. Being nomadic and all.

That, or plain promiscuity…

[azalea]

I hope that this isn't going too off topic, but those of you who are well traveled, if you had to live in a country other than the one where you live now, what would you choose (and it must be one you've visited, even if only for a day or less)? I've only been to two places outside the continental US, England and the Bahamas, and I'd definately pick England. But then, I don't have much else to compare (I've never even been to Canada or Mexico ). I'm especially interested in AE's answer, since he's been to so many places.

[Wayfarer]

if you had to live in a country other than the one where you live now, what would you choose

Some day I want to move to an island in international waters, actually.

[Huan]

Azalea, definitely England, particularly London (my favorite place on Earth), but the chances are unlikely.
Coney, we in the States have welfare, but the powers-that-be have for decades been systematically trying to dismantle it, as the Republicans do not believe in aiding their fellow humans, and the Democrats must compete with the Republicans. As for health care, medicine, as with anything else in the States, is treated as part of the free economy. Then there's the HUGE issue of malpractice insurance. Given that Americans will sue over a friggin' hangnail, insurance for doctors is enormous, hence the huge fees they charge. This is an especially sore issue in my home state, Mississippi, at the moment, because all the insurance handlers have pulled out of the state, and many surgeons may have to stop working for awhile, as no American doctor can work without insurance, because the first word American babies learn is "sue." Also an issue for me, as my father is a surgeon, which won't hurt me much, since I'm an adult, but my mom is freaking out about her alimony (she works too, mind you. Still, at the end of the month, she's got nothing left over). But I still acknowledge Afro-Elf's position: all my bellyaching is nothing compared to living in Afghanistan or what have you.

[afro-elf]

Azalea, I would pick Australia or Canada.

[afro-elf]

Oh, other reason I like the west is CHANGE. Here in Japan you are basically stuck with your first real job.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Huan
the Republicans do not believe in aiding their fellow humans, and the Democrats must compete with the Republicans.

You shouldn't make such bogus and unwarranted claims.

Republicans support welfare - but not handouts. The welfare that the democrats want doesn't work - all it does is prevent people from working or in some cases just encourages people to have chidren and stay on it. Welfare is meant to help people get back on their feet during hard times - not as a life style. New Jersey several years ago - limited welfare - there are certain things that recipients MUST do. They MUST actively look for a job or go to school. I do think that welfare should be graduated - so if a person does get a job - they aren't immediately cut off from it.

As for health care, medicine, as with anything else in the States, is treated as part of the free economy. Then there's the HUGE issue of malpractice insurance. Given that Americans will sue over a friggin' hangnail, insurance for doctors is enormous, hence the huge fees they charge. This is an especially sore issue in my home state, Mississippi, at the moment, because all the insurance handlers have pulled out of the state, and many surgeons may have to stop working for awhile, as no American doctor can work without insurance, because the first word American babies learn is "sue."

I have to agree with you here. That is one of the reasons why New Jersey has such high auto insurance - even though we are only about $20 higher than New York or Connecticut. But it's not surprising with what passes for entertaining television today - shows that show people treating each other like crap - "The Mole", "Joe Millionaire", "The Weakest Link", "The Bachelor", "The Bachelorette", "Survivor", etc, etc, etc.

Also an issue for me, as my father is a surgeon, which won't hurt me much, since I'm an adult, but my mom is freaking out about her alimony (she works too, mind you. Still, at the end of the month, she's got nothing left over). But I still acknowledge Afro-Elf's position: all my bellyaching is nothing compared to living in Afghanistan or what have you.

If she can't make ends meet - maybe she needs a better paying job or cut back on expenses.

I work hard for my money too - and I pay TONS of taxes. I want to keep my money so I can enjoy the hard work I do. If I'm going to be over taxed - there is really no need for me to work. I might as well quit and do something else - and live off the system.

[Huan]

Jerseydevil, re: the welfare stuff: I guess our respective party sympathies are showing . I'm a little confused about the link you're making between the awful awful drek that passes for prime-time tv these days and the nation's litigiousness and insurance crisis. And as for my mom, yeah, she does need to cut her expenses, as do I, but this is a hard thing to jump into when you're accustomed to another lifestyle. But again, I know millions of people around the world would kill to have problems like having to buy less beer every week.

[afro-elf]

But again, I know millions of people around the world would kill to have problems like having to buy less beer every week.

Don't if that makes be wanna laugh or cry.