08-10-2004, 07:57 AM | #21 | |
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and maybe helping each other is an instinct. wales and dolphins help sick individuals to the surface to get air. is that more than an instinct? is that morality?
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08-10-2004, 12:18 PM | #22 |
Quasi Evil
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Morality is, of course, whatever you want to call it. We would not be "moral" however if it didnt accrue some benefit in the long run. Never confuse “positive” actions with high minded selflessness for no purpose other than to be "moral". There is always a reason and a rhyme to our actions.
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08-10-2004, 12:48 PM | #23 |
Elf Lord
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Quite so. If anything, it's our ability to understand that reason which sets us apart from animals, not the morality itself.
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08-10-2004, 01:11 PM | #24 | |
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i don't see us as 'set apart' at all... we've just developed more effective ways of expressing our intelligence how can we know that a chimp does not look to the stars and think about his day or ponder what those lights really are?
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08-11-2004, 06:07 AM | #25 | |
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08-11-2004, 06:41 AM | #26 | |
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Of course all our actions have a reason. Also the animals' actions. But that doesn't make them moral actions. An action is morally good when it is ordered to achieve that "benefit in the long run" you mention. I'd add "the highest benefit you can achieve in the long run". If you do something that reports you a benefit, but that you know that strays you of the way to your own perfection you're not acting well. If you do something that reports a benefit for you but that brings evil consequences to others, that action surely is not leading you to your own perfection in the long run. Of course, if animals hasn't a notion of their perfection in the long run, then it is difficult to qualify their actions from a moral POV.
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08-11-2004, 01:29 PM | #27 | |
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and one would have to think that actions like not killing their own kind do show some kind of understanding of 'the long run' another example is that pack animals usually leave an injured member to die... and action made for the good of the pack, eventhough some might see it as cruel in the shortrun
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08-11-2004, 01:31 PM | #28 | |
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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08-11-2004, 01:34 PM | #29 | |
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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08-11-2004, 03:06 PM | #30 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
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08-11-2004, 03:10 PM | #31 | ||
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
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08-11-2004, 03:23 PM | #32 | ||||
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Seriously, though, I hope people (including IRex) realize that IRex's statement is merely his opinion; it may NOT be true. One day, I think we will all find out, very definitely, that morality is NOT "whatever you want to call it"; it is what I described (which is what is described in the Bible). IOW, my opinion is right and his is wrong. (not that I'm always right or even smarter; I think that I am right in this area, tho.) Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
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08-11-2004, 03:29 PM | #33 | |||
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
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08-11-2004, 03:35 PM | #34 | |
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(I know you were just being funny here, but c'mon! Jump in!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
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08-11-2004, 03:39 PM | #35 | ||
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! Last edited by RĂan : 08-11-2004 at 03:41 PM. |
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08-11-2004, 03:49 PM | #36 | |
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What's important is the meaning we attribute to things. Last edited by The Gaffer : 08-11-2004 at 03:50 PM. |
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08-11-2004, 04:03 PM | #37 | |||
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just because i say that some forms of animals may have 'morals' in the same way we do, does not mean that they are the same morals... after all, all morals are relative Quote:
if you mean, 'a human is not exactly the same as a chimp', sure... but it has an awful lot of simularities... many more than there are between chimps and ants Quote:
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08-11-2004, 04:08 PM | #38 | |||
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08-11-2004, 04:15 PM | #39 | |
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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08-11-2004, 04:51 PM | #40 | |
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btw, RĂ*an; what does having a soul mean?
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