11-23-2005, 09:27 PM | #21 |
Dreamweaver
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wow...draken, that's hilarious... , but! it never says that the blue wizards forsook their quest, nay, it doth declare that they "passed into the east", thus, we cannot assume that they fought for nought, nor that they abandoned the istari, mayhaps they were slaughtered, i always thought they might have been lesser because they didn't have their own colors, or that they were a team, but, another point, they didn't have colors when they came, celeborn made the council, so they had to have been true for a while in order to join up...hehe...a bunny! a bunny! brilliant...
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Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih... |
11-23-2005, 09:40 PM | #22 | ||
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now we know...the rest of the story.
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11-25-2005, 07:07 AM | #23 |
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From what I've heard, durinsbane2244, JRRT was in two minds as to what became of the Blue Wizards. One version was that the support from the East for Sauron would have been so much greater without them - implying they did their job and rallied some sort of resistance to him. The other version is that they set up their own cultish followings, presumably for selfish gain.
Neither option is very amusing though.
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11-27-2005, 08:45 PM | #24 |
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i don't remember exactly where it was i read it...mayhaps in the tolkien companion [big encyclopidia of lotr] or in the HoME, but i found out who the witch king once was, and that kinda dissapointed me, cuz i had this theory that he was one of the blue wizards corrupted and such...but alas, to no avail...
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Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih... |
11-30-2005, 01:17 AM | #25 | |||
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11-30-2005, 05:11 AM | #26 | |
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11-30-2005, 05:34 AM | #27 |
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Cheers Nurv! I'm blushing now!
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11-30-2005, 08:52 PM | #28 |
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forsaken there quest, or died...and didn't saruman get blown away?
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Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih... |
11-30-2005, 09:56 PM | #29 | |
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Quote:
Edit: Also I can't remeber where, perhaps the HoME, but I recall somewhere it stating that there was powerful Sorcerers in the east, aiding the Easterling armies and the others. Perhaps this was the work of the Blue Wizards?
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"Can you feel her, running through your veins? She will always live forever!" ~ Atreyu [Her portrait in Black] "I want to see pretty people doing ugly things..." ~ Unknown "Damn it n' such!" ~ Stewie Griffen Last edited by Halbarad of the Dunedain : 11-30-2005 at 09:57 PM. |
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12-01-2005, 05:13 PM | #30 | |
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I don't have the Letters of Tolkien or The People of Middle Earth to verrify, but I found something interesting from this site:
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12-02-2005, 10:08 PM | #31 |
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whoa whoa whoa....did that just name the two unnamed blue wizards? SWEET!!!
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Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih... |
12-04-2005, 03:15 AM | #32 | ||
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12-04-2005, 09:46 PM | #33 |
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so they're still unnamed...tear...
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Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih... |
12-05-2005, 08:11 AM | #34 | ||
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12-06-2005, 08:46 PM | #35 |
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than......they are no longer the unnamed two blue wizards...odd...
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Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih... |
12-09-2005, 02:24 PM | #36 |
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From barrowsdown.com:
Of the other two, we are given far less information. They're given the names Alatar and Pallando in Unfinished Tales, though it's possible that these weren't names, but titles, given due to their lack of names. Because they spent no time in the northwest of Middle-earth, they are not given names there like Gandalf had been given. Together they are referred to as Ithryn Luin, meaning "blue wizards" because they were clad in sea-blue robes. About Pallando's 'name,' Christopher Tolkien gives us this footnote in Unfinished Tales: Pallando, despite the spelling, perhaps contains palan "afar", as in palantir and in Pallaran "Far Wanderer," the name of Aldarion's ship. In The Peoples of Middle-earth, Christopher Tolkien informs us of another note Tolkien made on the blue wizards, this time naming them "Morinehtar and Romestamo." Tolkien gives both of these names meanings: "Darkness-slayer and East-helper." At Manwë's request for emissaries at a council, Alatar, a Maia of Oromë, was the second (after Curumo) and last to volunteer for the job. Alatar requested that he be able to bring along a friend, Pallando, who was also a Maia of Oromë. Upon the wizards' arrival to Middle-earth, they journeyed with Saruman into the east regions of Middle-earth (of which we know almost nothing). After a thousand years, Saruman returned alone. Tolkien was unsure of what happened to them. His thoughts on the matter are given in Unfinished Tales in a footnote to the 'Istari' chapter: I think they went as emissaries to distant regions, East and South, far out of Numenorean range: missionaries to enemy-occupied lands, as it were. What success they had I do not know; but I fear that they failed, as Saruman did, though doubtless in different ways; and I suspect they were founders or beginners of secret cults and 'magic' traditions that outlasted the fall of Sauron. Other notes by Tolkien, apparently an earlier conception of the blue wizards, are presented in The Peoples of Middle-earth (as mentioned above). The notes were fairly difficult to make out - the text in brackets is Christopher trying to make out his father's handwriting. Here they are: The other two are only known to (have) exist(ed) [sic] by Saruman, Gandalf, and Radagast, and Saruman in his wrath mentioning five was letting out a piece of private information. The 'other two' came much earlier, at the same time probably as Glorfindel, when matters became very dangerous in the Second Age. Glorfindel was sent to aid Elrond and was (though not yet said) pre-eminent in the war in Eriador. But the other two Istari were sent for a different purpose. Morinehtar and Romestamo. Darkness-slayer and East-helper. Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor-worship, to stir up rebellion ... and after his first fall to search out his hiding (in which they failed) and to cause [? dissension and disarray] among the dark East ... They must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarraying the forces of East ... who would both in the Second Age and Third Age otherwise have ... outnumbered the West. These ideas from HoME XII were abandoned, apparently, as we see Tolkien state that "Indeed, of all the Istari, one only remained faithful." This 'one' being Gandalf, obviously, meaning Alatar/Pallando weren't successful in whatever they did out there. This statement also negates the theory of there being more than five Istari. Did Radagast, Alatar, and Pallando go to Valinor? We're not told either way. Of the three, Radagast seems the most likely, but it seems certain that all three would have returned to Valinor at some point, unless they were as naughty as Curumo. Primary sources: Unfinished Tales (The Istari chapter) History of Middle-earth, Volume XII: The Peoples of Middle-earth The Hobbit/Lord of the Rings (for the accounts of Radagast) |
12-09-2005, 04:45 PM | #37 |
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wow...nice...so, by eastern regions, does that mean past the map we see in the books?
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Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih... |
02-22-2008, 08:08 PM | #38 |
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Radghast is a curious character...I don't think you can assume anything, but, I believe that he stayed in Arda after WR and left it when Iluvatar didn't need him anymore.
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02-22-2008, 09:38 PM | #39 |
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"Tune in - turn on - drop out."
Why Radagast was just a hippie before his time. |
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