05-05-2002, 07:24 PM | #21 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: May 2001
Location: myob
Posts: 587
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Just to point out, this debate was not intended as an Was it all right to cheat? debate, but rather, did he? I preosnally don't think he did, but it's too much fun playing devil's advocate . . .
Th ebaseball point is not valid. The pitcher can't force the batter to swing. I just checked, and Biblo speciafically told Gollum that it WAS a riddle. Now let's look at it from Gollum's point of view. He had been alone for too long of a time, forgetting hw social systems and such work. His companianship consisted of a ring (which may or amy not have a personality). Then here comes Biblo. They play a game with very questioable motives, and Gollum who has lost all of his sense of right and wrong. Biblo tells him that the pocket question is a riddle and that he MUST answer it or lose. Does that sound fair, or does it sound like cheating?
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05-24-2002, 04:17 PM | #22 |
Sapling
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Uh . . . I seem to be lost
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I don't think Bilbo cheated. Personally, I think Gollum is stupid. He should of just eaten Bilbo if he was going to anyway, but the riddle game was an interesting part of the story and Bilbo couldn't have died. If Bilbo had cheated, I wouldn't blame him if he was trying to save his life. Who would ever have known anyway? But I think Bilbo was just thinking out loud, and Gollum thought it was a riddle.
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05-26-2002, 02:36 PM | #23 |
Enting
Join Date: May 2002
Location: England
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I think Bilbo got a lucky break. Let's face it, wouldn't you do the same if you were him? I know I would!
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05-26-2002, 09:50 PM | #24 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: May 2001
Location: myob
Posts: 587
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I repeat, this is not about "Was it right?" or "In his position . . ." (I'm not trying to sound mean, I'm just tired and can't think of a better way to write this). All it is, "Did Bilbo cheat?". I've got a hunch that Nienna Grey thinks so.
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05-28-2002, 12:23 AM | #25 |
Elf Lord
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Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill
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I don't think he really cheated. I have, sitting in front of me, the authorized version of the Hobbit from 1966, and the exact words are:
Bilbo, seeing what had happened and having nothing better to ask stuck to his question, "what have I got in my pocket?" he asked louder. "S-s-s-s-s," hissed Gollum. "It must give us three guesseses, my preciouss, three guesseses." "Very well, guess away!" said Bilbo. Thus, he never specifies that it was meant to be Gollum. He just lets Gollum assume that it is a riddle. I can imagine him saying the last line with a sort of a laugh..mehehe.
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05-28-2002, 11:14 AM | #26 |
Númenorean
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,050
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If what Bilbo did is classified as "unfair", then what Gollum did is many times worse. He woulda killed Bilbo and...err..ate em In that kind of situation, one cant even say it was cheating, just saving his life.
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06-28-2002, 08:20 PM | #27 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: A quaint little hole which last time I checked was somewhere near Ohio, Middle-Earth.
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BILBO CHEATED!
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07-25-2002, 02:01 PM | #28 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Middle Earth (I wish)
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I have to say that Bilbo cheated. It was okay for him to cheat under these circumstances, but he he still cheated.
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07-27-2002, 01:40 PM | #29 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Israel
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I think that Khadrane is right. that's exactly what I anted to say... I guess I was late a bit.
anyway, I think he did cheat, but he had to do that.. for his life of course. so it was ok. |
07-27-2002, 03:28 PM | #30 |
Elven Warrior
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Location: the darkest region of Mirkwood (and trust me, it's really dark)
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Of course Bilbo cheated. It doesn't matter if he specified the question as a riddle to Gollum or not, he still took advantage of the fact that Gollum thought he was making a riddle, and so cheated. Sorry about the run-on sentence.
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07-30-2002, 04:15 PM | #31 |
Deus Ex Machina
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,951
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Bilbo cheated, but gollum let him. Gollum knew that the question wasn't a fair riddle, he even said so, and yet he still accepted it and tried to answer. Personally, I think the question of whether or not Bilbo cheated is void. Both Bilbo and gollum were not playing entirely by the rules and they both knew it but they kept on playing anyhow and didn't call eachother on it.
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08-04-2002, 12:21 AM | #32 | ||
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: KY
Posts: 217
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I think the "what have I got in my pocket?" question is a cheat as far as riddles go. On Bilbo's behalf, he never meant to cheat. He says it by accident, when he is nervous he is fiddling around with his pockets, and feels the ring he just found. He had forgotten all about it.
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04-21-2006, 07:03 PM | #33 |
Enting
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: in the clean air
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death, he cheated only, think me be truth here
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05-19-2006, 02:29 PM | #34 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 421
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I agree with most posters:
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