08-31-2003, 03:41 AM | #21 |
Elf Lord
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Not that my question has anything do with the actual subject, but is Aluminium and Aluminum the same thing?
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08-31-2003, 04:14 AM | #22 | |
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To reform a language to make it more easy to pronounce for foreigners is IMO a ludicrous idea. French has different sounds than English, that's true, but to change the pronounciation of a language so that others can learn it easier is far over the top. In that case it would be more advantageous for every one to learn a unified language like esperanto for example (or Westron ). But in case of spelling and grammar I suppose there's in every language something that could go easier. I had loved it if German didn't have all those nasties like dativ and genetiv for example. And the French COD's and COI's took me liters of sweat. English possible and improbable clauses took me quite some effort as well. In fact, I only have to look at those rediculous Dutch spelling rules for intermediate n's to beg for some simplification. (Yes Lin, those! ) All in all I think spelling is the easiest thing to change to make a language easier. I have always thought of the pronounciation of a language as its soul. You don't go around changing that overmuch.
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08-31-2003, 04:51 AM | #23 | |
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08-31-2003, 06:50 AM | #24 | |
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08-31-2003, 07:35 AM | #25 | |
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Just wanted to make a note that I started this thread to get your opinions on a potential English spelling reform, not as a medium for you to express your views about the inferiority of other languages. Please keep that in mind. However, JD, I am slightly confused. Why do you persist with French if you so clearly dislike it? Why not focus your energy on learning a language you enjoy, one you do not consider 'wimpy'? Btw: I am geniunely curious; I am not trying to antagonise you About the aluminium thing- ah! That's cleared that up a bit. I always thought their pronunciation sounded strange to my ears. |
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08-31-2003, 07:59 AM | #26 |
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The English language does not need reform. As someone has already indicated, it is a living language and has reformed constantly over a period of about 1,000 years - and has many roots that go back for a 1,000 years before that.
Change will come when change is needed. Giving some Committee the power to arbitarily change the language is a nonsense (and there would be no other way of carrying out the wholesale reform some are advocating). Nobody has mentioned the fact that the subtle differences in our spellings reflect subtle differences in our pronounciation. 'Colour' is not pronounced the same way as 'color'. This adds to the poetry and beauty of the language. Also, who's phonetics are you going to use? People talk about American English being different from British English, but identical words are pronounced differently in Yorkshire from the way they are spoken in Lancashire. Liverpudlians speak entirely differently from Mancunians. Londoners wouldn't recognise half the words used by a resident of Edinburgh - even though they are the same word. Get real - no one 'phonetic' code would be acceptable unless you want to not only dumb down but also strip the beauty and diversity from English dialects. Are you going to spell 'bath' (a) 'barth' to rhyme with 'tarf' or (b) 'bath' to rhyme with 'caff' - it is uniformly pronounced one way in the South of England and the other in the North. Final thought. My spelling was awful when I was a kid. I didn't winge about how hard the language was, I didn't claim I had dyslexia - I just got on and learnt how to spell. I still make mistakes, but it is my lazyness, not the complexity of the language that is at fault. Just in case you are in any doubt, I don't think we should change the spelling of English. Last edited by LutraMage : 08-31-2003 at 08:01 AM. |
08-31-2003, 08:10 AM | #27 | ||
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Like I said, radicalising the entire system is not a good idea, but I think changing parts of it would be one, IMO. Quote:
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08-31-2003, 10:09 AM | #28 | |
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08-31-2003, 10:28 AM | #29 |
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reforms? there are other places to start first.
Alcohol laws in the U.S. to begin with. English is doing fine, i'd say.
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08-31-2003, 12:30 PM | #30 | |
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08-31-2003, 12:54 PM | #31 | |
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I believe many people think that since they have already learnt how English words are spelled, they don't want the language to change. They think that everyone else should adapt to the more difficult spelling, and they themselves who have a good command of the spelling should not have to adapt to a new, easier way of spelling. From one point of view, that sounds a little egoistic. I am sure that millions of people around the world would love to have more easily spelled words in the English language, and I am sure that many people with English as their native tongue would want that as well. Though I agree that in a way it would be sad to simplify the spelling of certain words. Many of the English words have a history, and that history tells us why the words are so strangely spelled.
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08-31-2003, 01:50 PM | #32 | |
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08-31-2003, 03:54 PM | #33 | |
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JD: French a "wimp" language? Is that a linguistic term? :P And I like how you then say feminine so that feminine=wimp! So what would be a "tough, masculine" language? (I'm just giving you a hard time here, JD ) |
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08-31-2003, 04:03 PM | #34 | |
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08-31-2003, 05:03 PM | #35 | |
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08-31-2003, 05:12 PM | #36 | ||
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08-31-2003, 05:19 PM | #37 | |
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I also had episodes in college where Japanese students as well as Europeans - would be talking and you walk in and they switch to their native language. Like I said - I find it rude - especially if they are speaking english one minute and switch languages the next. Not all of them do this though of course. In my house - we were NOT allowed to whisper or anything - and to me - people doing that is just like someone whispering. If I weas in Italy and I was talking to someone who understood Italian - I would speak Italian. I would not switch to English - unless there was something I didn't know how to say. But even then - the people around me would know that I only switched because I was trying to figure out how to say something. But actually the main reason I want to learn foreign languages is to expand my knowledge of other countries. By learning a foreign language - then I can read their websites - including news sites and forums - like LeMonde. I used to read Le Monde online. Reading is much easier than writing or talking. I also have many books in French - including Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings and The Little Prince. I also have books in Russian and Italian too - but those are currently packed away. By the way - I am against any language being made easier so people can learn it or pronounce it - particularly for foreign speakers. I don't expect France to make their language easier to pronounce - nor should anyone expect English to change it's language. What really upsets me - is that many people and some people on this board - criticize American spelling and seem to think that British English is superior. There have been many discussions regarding this - with many Americans claiming British English is better. As I said in all those threads - it's not better - it's just different.
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08-31-2003, 05:46 PM | #38 | |||
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08-31-2003, 08:07 PM | #39 |
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I was also mostly poking fun when I said that the French should change their langauge... why should anyone? I do dislike the french language though...been taking it for years in school and I've been to Paris - the French people certainly are rude to american tourists. Also went to London in the same trip - much much nicer imo.
Why change english ? Just to help a few lousy spellers? They would still spell words incorrectly. For those of us who have a good handle on the english langauge, it would just throw us off.
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09-01-2003, 01:16 AM | #40 | |
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