Discrimination

[BeardofPants]

Yes, yes, I agree that its a problem meeting racism with preferential treatment. As I said in my earlier post, "There needs to be some sort of middle ground. "

Could someone explain to this non-US person what "Affirmative Action" is? Is it sorta like "closing the gaps"?

It is well known that all people should be treated equally, whatever race, gender or religion.

Equality is problematic anyway. I don't think you can ever really treat ALL people with equality, because of their differences. Instead of trying to turn people into mono-humans, we should be trying to embrace people in all their quirks, and differences. Men and women are always going to have that difference in body morphology. Just because it's now suddenly PC to treat them equally (which ain't happening, on BOTH sides of the spectrum), you still have to remember that the differences in morphology dictate that there are some things that are gender-specific. That also goes for cultural identity. There ARE differences. Instead of trying to umbrella all the different peoples under the one system, we should be trying to encourage diversification and "different-ness". Maybe we should redefine equality, because the current term ain't working!

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

That is true, Tater. . .it is odd how only now we feel the guilt for all the crimes of our 'fore-fathers,' when we ourselves are not comitting those crimes--as much--but still, I feel we ought to do something about what happened, though more racism is definitely not the solution, because it just creates a vicious cycle in which we repeat our mistakes again and again.

[afro-elf]

Affrinative action was/is a legal mandate to get more minorites ( read blacks) into work or school etc.

as tater said in the beginning it WAS a good idea because it allowed QUALIFIED blacks a chance get were they were blocked out
but now it is just ****ing sad

lowering the standards is just bullshit

i'd rather go to a doctor or lawyer who deserves to be there on their own merits than some whinny minority who got there by lowering the standards

when it comes to education now i blame black parents/communities

my mom was involved in my life and I;m the only person in my circle who's travel across the globe and has a few degrees

my mom and grandma have/had masters degrees

why? involvement.

Now I did not grow up middle class. Both women were social workers which means we lived right along side the people they were helping

anyway black people have been blaming whitey for far to long

whitey is not making you not emphasize education and dual cultral shift. I can flip flop between ebonics and SAE. look at as south east asians who come here they have no great role models here and they whoop as in school. they don't speak the langauge
and they live in the ghetto with black, hispanics and poor whites

why do they whoop a$$. there family/culture valve education

they now how to delay pleasure for the future while the others are for the instant gratifaction

i really wish the blacks would stop whining, stop being slaves to the democrats ( i'm not demo or rep) just waitin for massa to give hand out cos wessa too victimized can can't do anything for our- selves

i'm gonna stop here 'cos i'm getting riled up

basically get off you fat nubian posterior stop whining get involved in the lives of your children and your communities

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

You make some very good points, A-E, but should we really remove all blame and responsibility from those who are in power, the majority of whom are white?

[Andúril]

Where I come from, Affirmative Action is the "politically correct" term given to the concept of bridging the gap between previously disadvantaged groups, and those who were previously in power. Here, in South Africa (read: Land of Apartheid), the black population is by no means the minority. But they were in the past entirely discriminated against, and now find themselves in a disadvantageous position.

One drawback of this entire affirmative action concept, is that it leaves out the rest; if you are not black, you will (most probably) not get preference in employment opportunities. Of course, it was not only the blacks that were discriminated against...

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

I think affirmative action does indeed have its problems, but I believe the ideas it is based on are not all faulty. . .it's the way it is executed.

[BeardofPants]

You mean less of a "hand out" and more of a "hand up"? Kinda patronising, ain't it?

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Patronizing. . .I suppose so.

[afro-elf]

You make some very good points, A-E, but should we really remove all blame and responsibility from those who are in power, the majority of whom are white?

before the equal rights amendment yes the power strcucture was to blame but that was forty years ago.


now the playing field is FAR more level.

now its just an excuse for unqulified blacks to get jobs they don't deserve.

its NEVER because of poor english skills, unprofessional dress codes etc

it only because "i'm black, i'm a victim" that is BULLSH!T

I am not a victim. MOST blacks in America are not victims

they are insular and think that being from the HOOD and being DOWN is about being black

No white person MADE them not study. no white person MADE them not take birth control

the cry of DA MAN holding them back is outdated

why should YOU suffer for some someone else's past sins?

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Okay. Won't argue with that, I suppose.

[afro-elf]

:

FIFTEEN WAYS TO AVOID BEING
CALLED AN "UNCLE TOM"
By Larry Elder
1. See every Spike Lee movie. Pronounce each brilliant (even School Daze). Attack any non-black who disagrees. ("You wouldn't understand. It's a black thing.")

2. Whenever possible, disparage the success of other ethnic groups. Never attribute their success to hard work, discipline and sacrifice. Jews cheat. Koreans deceive. Japanese sneak.

3. If you are black, never publicly acknowledge hard work as the key to success. If living in a suburb, driving a nice car, you've "sold out." So whenever possible, disparage your own success by citing racist enemies conquered and enemy terrain (all offices, factories, non-black customers) "overcome."

4. Remember every racial slight and slur that's ever happened to you. Forget how long ago or what idiot said it. All racist remarks should be retained, remembered, regurgitated.

5. Always construe unpleasant remarks as racist. Dumb statements made by non-blacks are never just dumb, insensitive or naive. When a curious non-black classmate asks why so many blacks sit together, accuse him of racism.

6. Never look happy or comfortable. Rap artists don't smile. Neither should you. Snoop Doggy Dogg, Ice-T and Public Enemy never grin. This would suggest, "Hot damn, I'm rich! America works!"

7. Jessie Jackson is always right. Never question 30 years of welfare, jobs programs, public housing or minimum wage laws. To challenge these policies is to blame the "victims."

8. Treat "black problems" separate and apart from "America's problems." Never suggest that high taxes or excessive regulation destroy jobs, denying opportunities to the weakest segment of society.

9. Show no interest in "non-black" things. Do not read Russian literature, study European or Asian art or attend plays without black themes. Never say anything positive about Barbara Streisand, the MacNeil-Lehrer Report or haiku.

10. Feel guilty about success. If you prosper, others will demand that you "give something back," that you "don't forget your roots." They will ask, "What have you done to help others?" Working hard, paying taxes and raising productive children are inadequate.

11. Discount positive news. Polls show many non-black Americans favor Colin Powell for President of the United States. The black middle class is growing faster than the white middle class. Nearly 10 percent of black families now earn $50,000 a year or more. The combined income of black America exceeds that of all but 10 countries. Ignore this.
to mention good things means a "lack of perspective."

12. Purchase books by angry blacks. Read books by former gang-bangers who attack "the system."

13. Show outrage and indignation whenever a white kills a black. Whenever a black kills a black (as is most likely the case), sigh, shrug your shoulders and mutter something like, "Well..."

14. Avoid having too many non-black friends, especially white ones. Don't' want to lose your "sense of identity."

15. Refer to the 1992 Los Angeles riots as an "uprising." (Don't ask.)

[Darth Tater]

LOL! No wait, those aren't funny, I've heard them all before, said in a very serious tone!

60 minutes had a really great story on Affirmative Action last night. Hosted by their black anchor, it was anti affirmative action, because, well, no one intelligent can support it any more. One pro-affirmative action used the example that having a diverse school makes the discussion of issues like racial profiling more interesting. Uh gee, isn't affirmative action a PC term for racial profiling? Whatever. They had one teacher at a school that uses affirmative action who wrote a paper against it. He showed how the system works at that school. It used to be a teired system of three levels. A white person in the top level would get in, as would a black. However, in the bottom two levels black and hispanic students would get in, while a white student would get rejected. That's right, one could safely assume that for at least every 2/3 of black students in the school, there was a equally or even more qualified white student rejected. This is fair?

After he brought this to the public's eye they changed the system to a points system. 12 points for a perfect SAT. 1 point for an outstanding essay (they changed that to 3 points after the story was done) and 20 points for being in a minority! So, uh, being in a minority is 20% more important then being a good writer? THIS is a politically correct system? No! This is racism!

[afro-elf]

racism tolkien style


its an elf thing you wouldn't understand

[Eldanuumea]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
You mean less of a "hand out" and more of a "hand up"? Kinda patronising, ain't it?

The original idea behind the practice was to make amends for decades of discrimination by boosting deserving minority candidates into a position of competitive strength. Rascism had made it nearly impossible for qualified African-Americans to get even some consideration for jobs, slots in schools, etc.
Some equalization has taken place now which makes the practice obsolete. But without it, many great African-Americans would never have had their foot in a the solid-white door.

I live in a Southern community (U.S.A.) that is about fifty-fifty white to black. I'm not from here originally, and I was looking at some historical pictures during a recent celebration of the area's history. One portrait showed the three hundred employees of the local texttile mill during the fifties. Guess how many blacks were in the picture......one, and he was clearly dressed as a janitor with broom in hand.
Affirmative action served a very necessary purpose at one time, though I would agree it is time to move beyond it.

[Starr Polish]

At my school there is racism between teh bandites and the non-bandites.

"it's a band thing, you wouldn't get it"...

[emplynx]

I know what you mean starr polish!

[Khamûl]

Actually, at my school, most of the tension is between the band and the cheerleaders.

On a more serious note, it's enlightening to hear the opinions of a black man, afro-elf. This is a rather interesting discussion.

[afro-elf]

Thanks but i'm a minority in my views concering the black community sort of a black outcast

[Eldanuumea]

Afro-elf, what I'm trying to combat here in my MS classroom is a pervasive, deadly refusal on the part of most of my African-American students to participate in the real world.
They have decided that #1 they're black, #2 they're poor, #3 success in school is a "white" thing, and #4 they are good enough just as they are.
A disturbing trend has crept into my classes. More and more black students say things like, "You know that's how blacks are," or "What do you expect? It's how black folks do." This will always be in response to some negative thing, like running out of paper and pens,notetc. being faithful to your spouse, stealing, cheating,
When I suggest that they are making rascist remarks, they tell me, "It's the truth, Ms. B."
I don't know how to counteract such deeply ingrained self-loathing. I'm not from here, so maybe there is a sad history that still reaches its deadly fingers to clutch my students and drag them down.

[afro-elf]

I definately understand. It seems that many black kids have embraced the "ghetto mind" as THE black mind and they glorify in it.


Innumerable times I've been called a "white boy, sell out, oreo, one of dem kinda niggas "etc why? I like to read and can speak SAE and because I'm not DOWN.

Luckily, my "presence" in not one to elicit the " look it's a nigga" response

But I'm torn between anger and shame when I look at the black community.