08-20-2000, 08:31 PM | #21 |
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Re: On the death of Arwen
Balrog at Planet Tolkien liked to say that
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08-23-2000, 10:41 PM | #22 |
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Re: On the death of Arwen
Well, maybe he'll be kind enough to say if he's the same?
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04-30-2003, 11:10 AM | #23 | |
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06-02-2003, 11:52 PM | #24 |
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On the death of Arwen
The death of Arwen was bittersweet and poignant because Arwen did lose everything. Her parents and grandmother were gone (I am unsure if Celeborn was still around or her brothers) and she had no way of following them since that road was closed to her, her husband had passed on, and even though she had children she did not seem to want to stay around for them. She travels to Lorien, which at this point is probably just a shadow of what it used to be, lays herself down on a mound and dies. And, she is not even remembered afterwords. Of course, all of this is just my humble opinion, but I am fine with this ending because I believe (I have no proof, this is just my personal view) that Arwen and Aragorn are united wherever they ended up after they both passed on from Middle Earth. If Tolkien's intentions were to have the Elves fade from memory then maybe Arwen was a part of that "fading".
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07-17-2007, 03:00 AM | #25 |
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On the death of Arwen
well all it says was that the eldars(elves) sailed to the Undying lands. It never says that the characters never meet again after Death. I would think that since both man and the elves are both childeren of Eru Ilúvatar that he wouldn't have the heart to keep both them away from each other. So I believe that Arwen gets to see both her family(dad/mother/ect) and her new family(daughters/son/husband) after her death. Since tolkien/c.s.lewis had the same idea of heaven just a different title for it. Undying land(tolkien) Aslan's country/ Great land beyound the sea/My fathers country or is it land(lewis) and if i remember right i dont think that tolkien said there wasn't a place for man to go to after death..It just might mean that since elves are perfect(in and at everthing) and inmortal that they get to see heaven 1st. and if that wasn't right why let froddo/gimli/ Bilbo go to the undying land (just be cause they eather carried the ring or help carry the task of takening it to mount doom...like Gandalf says "Death is only the Beginning" as seen below
Pippin: I didn't think it would end this way. Gandalf: End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path. One that we all must take... The gray rain curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass. And then you see it... Pippin: What--Gandalf, see what? Gandalf: White shores. And beyond... A far green country, with a swift sunrise... (sigh). Pippin: (smiling) Well... that doesn't sound so bad. Gandalf: No... No it isn't (smiling, tears). so all in all they all might see each other again Last edited by aurora7054 : 07-17-2007 at 03:02 AM. |
07-17-2007, 05:13 AM | #26 |
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Holy thread necromancy!
Hello aurora. Frodo, Sam and Gimli don't "undie". They are allowed to pass into the West so that they can be healed fully of the hurts of the Ring (in the case of the former two) or so they can see Galadriel again (in the case of Gimli) before they die naturally. If you're interested in this side of the story, I'd recommend the Silmarillion. Those lines from Gandalf in the film are lifted from Frodo's dream in Tom Bombadil's house in the books, by the way. |
07-18-2007, 10:45 PM | #27 | |
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The different destinations of the spirits is the main cause of the deep grief for Elrond. He is facing separation from Arwen until at least the ending of the world, and possibly forever.
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Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me," Last edited by Lefty Scaevola : 07-18-2007 at 10:47 PM. |
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07-19-2007, 07:20 PM | #28 |
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Elrond got to spend many years longer with his daughter than I ever will with mine so it's frankly hard for me to feel extra sorry for him about Arwen. He should let go of his grief and appreciate better was he was given.
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07-19-2007, 11:13 PM | #29 | |
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07-20-2007, 12:12 PM | #30 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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07-20-2007, 03:14 PM | #31 |
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True, but let's be frank about this: Not seeing your child until the end of time because they've chosen to go beyond the world to be with their true love for ever and ever is one thing. But as sad as that might seem, it's probably a less painful option than not seeing them until the end of time because of the horrific, soul-scarring tragedy of their lives has left them unwilling or incapable of functioning as a corporeal being until without a billion years of psychotherapy.
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07-20-2007, 05:43 PM | #32 | |
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07-20-2007, 05:46 PM | #33 | |
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07-24-2007, 08:16 PM | #34 | ||||||||
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07-25-2007, 06:09 AM | #35 | |
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Not too precise a citation, granted, but I don't have the books in front of me. |
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07-25-2007, 06:59 AM | #36 | |
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EDIT: Just checked - you were right about the Tale of Years. This is also mentioned in the very last entry of Appendix B.
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07-25-2007, 09:12 AM | #37 | |||
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Well, I only knew of Appendix B and letter #154 as referring to the departure of Gimli. However, none of these sources (not even App. A), mention Galadriel as the main reason. On the whole, it seems like his friendship with Legolas is the main cause. At least, that's my understanding.
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07-25-2007, 11:36 AM | #38 |
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Thanks for posting those.
Bit of both then? Perhaps with mostly Legolas's friendship being the motivating factor. I always took Gimli at his word in terms of how he valued her gift above all the jewels in the earth. |
07-25-2007, 01:54 PM | #39 |
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I agree.
I wonder how much of his affection for Galadriel came from the fact that she petted his dwarven ego in Lothlorien (that was evil, I know). Back to the original topic... |
07-25-2007, 02:46 PM | #40 |
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Both texts about Gimli going to Aman contain internal caveats suggesting that this may not be true or may be poetic/bardic license within the internal 'reality' of Arda. "It is said" and "We have heard". This is similar, but with the tale more supported, to that of Turin being made into an elven like immortal and living in Aman.
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Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me," Last edited by Lefty Scaevola : 07-25-2007 at 02:54 PM. |
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