10-10-2003, 07:21 AM | #21 | |
Lord of the Pants
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10-10-2003, 08:55 AM | #22 | ||
Elf Lord
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I think it takes many generations for the form of these rites of passage to become established. While I understand and respect people who adapt these rites to reflect their own principles (e.g. making up your own wedding vows), at least a part of the significance of the event could be lost because it's unfamiliar to the broader community. |
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10-10-2003, 09:28 AM | #23 | ||
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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--Life is hard, and then we die. Last edited by Artanis : 10-10-2003 at 09:30 AM. |
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10-10-2003, 09:34 AM | #24 |
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
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Bah, I had a really nice post and then managed to delete everything...
I'm with Afro Elf, Ruinel, the Gaffer and Douglas Adams: there's no proof for God's existence, hence there's no reason to believe in him (or, alterantively, her, or even it). Although zinnite (and the rest of the agnostics) has a point: There's no evidence for the opposite either. So you may say that I'm somewhere in the middle: I don't believe in God, but I wouldn't be too surprised if I met St. Peter by the pearly gate when I drop dead.
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Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle. Last edited by Falagar : 10-10-2003 at 09:41 AM. |
10-10-2003, 09:36 AM | #25 | |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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10-10-2003, 09:40 AM | #26 |
Elven Maiden
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Hey hey hey! I was raised and (recently) confirmed Catholic. My mom is Catholic, my dad, well he doesn't go to church but I think he's a believer, but a skeptic one? Gee I don't know. He wears a saint medal thingy all the time- he hasn't taken it off since he got it.
Anyway, I really haven't made up my mind as to what I believe. It's so hard! My rational self refuses to let me believe anything on faith alone, and I have never seen Jesus in person. But, I have also never heard of any way to disprove Him. The old testament....Genesis, etc., well, I have always viewed that as stories, that are around to explain how things are. Not in the same way as other mythology though...or maybe? There are a lot of flood stories. Ever realize that? Like in the Epic of Gilgamesh...anyway... I think that whatever the truth is, it is much too big for my mind to understand. I mean, existance of anything to begin with is so...weird. I like to study other religions though. And mythology. (Don't we all? I think the Silmarillion counts!) I like things like Buddhism, you know? Things that are not really religions, more of a way of life. But I won't claim to accept anything exactly, not even agnostic. I guess I'm undecided. Ok enough rambling. |
10-10-2003, 09:46 AM | #27 | |
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
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But I see what you mean.
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Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle. |
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10-10-2003, 11:33 AM | #28 |
Lady of Letters
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I'm a Christian. I went to a Catholic primary school, so I started going to church quite young, but I didn't really start believing it in more than a superficial way until quite recently. My parents are Christians, but they're more interested in mystics of all religions and Platonic ideas (don't ask me to explain), which they would like me to get into. I prefer "mere" Christianity though .
I tend to call myself a Catholic, though denominations are not something I feel strongly about. I'm more like a High Church Anglican (if such things still exist), but I feel very sympathetic to Catholicism and when other Christians attack it, which the ones I know do a lot, I defend it. So that's me
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
10-10-2003, 12:41 PM | #29 | |
Elven Maiden
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10-10-2003, 12:46 PM | #30 | |
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
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But then again, I may be completely wrong. We need more diversity in this forum.
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Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle. |
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10-10-2003, 04:16 PM | #31 | ||
Quasi Evil
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oh and I would say Buddhism is thought of more as a philosophy then a hard core religion.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Last edited by Insidious Rex : 10-10-2003 at 04:17 PM. |
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10-10-2003, 05:53 PM | #32 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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I think that athiests get so riled up, that athieism is almost(and might as well) a religion.
I'm a christian myself.
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10-10-2003, 08:09 PM | #33 |
Hoplite Nomad
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I think that people tend to get into a quagmire in dividing up atheist ,agnostic, non -believer, free thinker etc...
I got the following parts from here: http://www.2think.org/hii/atheism.shtml Some of the most poorly understood words are: theism, atheism, and agnosticism. In the following paragraphs, I will attempt to provide a definitional framework for the three words. I'm confident that many people who read this will still choose to define the words differently than I. The purpose of the definitions is not to establish some sort of absolute truth but to provide a working definition that at least I can point to and say, "this is what I think the definition is, and this is how I use these words". .... Perhaps the biggest reason the above words are misunderstood is that theists tend to define atheism, atheists tend to define theism, and people who call themselves agnostics don't want to belong to either of the definitions the other two parties have given to each other... There are several other false definitions usually put on atheism by theists. Theists frequently claim (and if you don't believe me I can send you countless emails I have received from theists or you can read their definitions on the web for yourself) that atheists "claim to know there is no god", "are merely rebelling against a god that they really believe in", "think they can prove there is no god", "say there is no god so that they can be evil", "don't want to be accountable", etc.
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
10-10-2003, 08:13 PM | #34 |
Hoplite Nomad
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Part two
Although some atheists ... may claim to know that there is no god, most atheists claim no such thing. Atheism is a "lack of belief in god" and nothing more. Those who claim to "know" there is no god are sometimes referred to as "strong atheists", but their thinking is as faulty as those who claim to know that there is a god.
". Now let's move on to theism briefly. Theism is simply the opposite of atheism. A good definition of theism is "a positive assertion that god does exist". Whatever this god may be to the theist is irrelevant to the definition of theism as a word on its own. Based on these two definitions, everyone is either a theist or an atheist. Either you positively assert that there is a god or you lack such a positive assertion. There is no middle ground--which brings us to our third word of agnosticism. When you break down the word agnostic, you come up with a term meaning "without knowledge" or "unknowable". The word agnostic isn't a very old word. Despite this fact, T.H. Huxley, who created the term, used it to mean our modern definition of 'scientist' more than anything else. The word has changed meaning over the years, and people have tended to use the term as a sort of middle ground between atheism and theism. In my opinion, such a middle ground doesn't exist. One either asserts that there is a god or they lack such an assertion. Agnostics have labeled themselves as such because they don't understand the definition of atheism or because they have heard only about the 'strong atheists' who do make a positive assertion that there is no god and they don't personally hold such a strong assertion. My definition of agnostic is probably different from any that you have previously heard. My (modern) definition is that virtually everyone is an agnostic. That's right, almost everyone is either an agnostic/atheist or they are an agnostic/theist because no one can 'know' god. Atheists probably don't have a problem with this definition, but I'd be willing to bet that many theists who are reading this don't appreciate being labeled an agnostic.... To conclude and summarize, both you and I are agnostics ....If you answer the question, "Do you believe in god?" with an affirmative, then you are a theist. If your answer is "no" or "I don't know" then you are an atheist due to your lack of an affirmative belief.
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. Last edited by afro-elf : 10-10-2003 at 08:19 PM. |
10-10-2003, 10:18 PM | #35 |
Quasi Evil
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strong atheists? sounds like they are just trying to co-opt agnosticism. Id strongly disagree with that text book definition. the working definition of "someone who believes there is NO god" is widely accepted as atheism. this is another reason why I think that a huge percentage of self declared "atheists" are, at heart, actually agonstics. especially if the basis of their reasoning is in observable science. atheism tends to be a term used more for political or emotional reasons. often times its just a reaction against a religion. which is why its not surprising that so many atheists started out at one time as theists.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
10-10-2003, 11:17 PM | #36 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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oh, thanks afro-elf.
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10-10-2003, 11:27 PM | #37 | |
Elven Warrior
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Re: Part two
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I do consider myself an ardent skeptic, though (and, oddly enough, I was born and raised in the so-called "Show-Me State"). If there's any definition or label I attach to myself, it's that one. I really like Afro-Elf's earlier explanation of skepticism--that's pretty much me all around. And for pure enjoyment, a friend of mine has two relevant essays on his website: Skeptics, Debunkers and Believers and A Case for Agnosticism |
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10-11-2003, 12:04 AM | #38 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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Whats wierd is that this thread seems to be "offshoot discussion of what religion are you" and the one mentioned seems to be "the REAL religion DEBATE thread" I think its called that...
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10-11-2003, 02:38 AM | #39 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Re: REAL debate thread for RELIGION
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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10-11-2003, 03:12 AM | #40 | |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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Re: Part two
Quote:
Couldn't care less about what label is put on me though, as long as people see my pov.
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