NJ Gov. McGreevey Resigns

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by HOBBIT

Is it a requirement that JD post after everyone who replies? :P

I don't think there is a rule against it.

As for the DMV commercials - he only appeared in those because the DMV has been restructured and he has to make sure people think he did something. The DMV, as well as the "No Call" commercials are more like hidden campaign commercials. If he was going to run for re-election - he really has to get that 30-40% rating up you know.

[Ragnarok]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

But the thing is - supposedly this whole thing has far more than him just being gay. I don't personally care that he is gay - but the fact that he is on all our commercials and has presented himself as a happy family man. Also - how is he supposed to be a governor with all this going on in his life? How much time do you think he's going to be able to spend on issues in NJ while trying to deal with his family life. This isn't a small event in a family. It is much bigger for his familty than him having a standard affair.

I am sort of upset right now by the game he's playing though too. He announced his resignation, but he is not going to resign until AFTER the november elections. If he resigned before the elections - then we would be having a gubernatorial election come November and we would be able to vote for who our new governor would be. Becuase he is waiting though - the president of the Senate, who is a democrat, will be governor until November 2005 elections. Why not just resign and let the VOTERS vote for our next governor.

Thats nice, I was discussing how his homosexuality will have an effect on the whole thing, I'm not interested in his career as governor.

[Fat middle]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

No indeed, I haven't seem them. I was commenting more on the idea of having politicians in commercials to inspire people to pay your state a visit. It's probably just because I'm not too fond of politicians and was thinking how it would be when they would do it here too. It just seem odd to me, that's probably a better word for how it seems to me.

I agree with Eärniel. hereit would seem odd. And also everybody would criticize it because it'd be seen as using public funds to promote his own image.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Ragnarok

Thats nice, I was discussing how his homosexuality will have an effect on the whole thing, I'm not interested in his career as governor.

What whole thing are you talking about? The nation, the state, his family? The thing is - it seems like New Jerseyans care about him being gay, but only about his career as governor. And since you made the comment about "I think the right will spin this to their advantage." I think you have a slanted view of the whole thing. Instead of discussing the issue of his resigning - you seem to want to discuss something that isn't really being discussed in NJ and that is him being gay and make accusations of how the "right" is reacting to it.

[Ragnarok]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

What whole thing are you talking about? The nation, the state, his family? The thing is - it seems like New Jerseyans care about him being gay, but only about his career as governor. And since you made the comment about "I think the right will spin this to their advantage." I think you have a slanted view of the whole thing. Instead of discussing the issue of his resigning - you seem to want to discuss something that isn't really being discussed in NJ and that is him being gay and make accusations of how the "right" is reacting to it.

Please cite one example where I made accusations?

Sadly, I think the right will spin this to their advantage.

I think that the right might spin it to their advantage, I'm not accusing, I'm guessing, nor did I say how they are reacting to it.

Since you failed to understand the point I was making in the original post let me repost it.

I think it's sad because I often think the "gay" people who are in relationships, even marriage, with the opposite sex do so as a result of the intense ostracizing the gay community gets. Of course I find extramarital affairs wrong and find it must be really hard on the wife, but on the other hand, homosexuals wouldn't be so incognito and using "marriage" as a beard if we had healthy attitudes towards the gay community.


And I'm not getting involved with his role as governor because I don't know enough about him, I went to high school in New Jersey and had heard some stuff about him. However, I live in Pennsylvania, so New Jersey's governor was never an interest to me.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Though it's rather hypocritical of him to resign only after the elections. That's the sort of politics that makes me weary of any politician.

well if he resigns now they are faced with an election in november and another the very next year. rather a waste of money i would think. plus they dont want this situation bubbling to life right as the presidential race is finishing.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

well if he resigns now they are faced with an election in november and another the very next year. rather a waste of money i would think. plus they dont want this situation bubbling to life right as the presidential race is finishing.

There isn't an election next year at all if it takes place now. At least no one has said there would be. The person elected in November would be governor for 4 years - not one.

[EDIT]
Note this is what the NJ Consitution says...

Article V
Executive
Section I

9 In the event of a vacancy in the office of Governor, a Governor shall be elected to fill the unexpired term at the general election next succeeding the vacancy, unless the vacancy shall occur within sixty days immediately preceeding a general election, in which case he shall be elected at the second succeeding general election; but no election to fill an unexpired term shall be held in any year in which a Governor is to be elected for a full term. A Governor elected for an unexpired term shall assume his office immediately upon his election.

No one has brought up that the person elected would only be there for the one year. I'm not completely sure what would happen. It seems as if the person would be elected only for the unexpired term as IR said. However - since this is a major election year and ALL the polling places will be open throughout the state for the presidential elections - I'm not sure how this wopudl be a waste of money. It may be a waste for the candidates - but it wouldn't really cost the government that much. We have 90 days to prepare for it.

What it boils down to is that McGreevey wants to guarantee that a democrat finishes out his term. There was an election now - with how little Mcgreevey is liked - there is no guarantee that a democrat would be elected. It is very possible that Bret Schundler could be elected.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Ragnarok

Please cite one example where I made accusations?

I think that the right might spin it to their advantage, I'm not accusing, I'm guessing, nor did I say how they are reacting to it.

You might have been guessing, however you posted it in an accusatory way. With what a terrible governor McGreevey has been - I doubt the Republicans have to use him being gay as a political point. McGreevey did enough things to bury himself during his time as governor.

Since you failed to understand the point I was making in the original post let me repost it.

I think it's sad because I often think the "gay" people who are in relationships, even marriage, with the opposite sex do so as a result of the intense ostracizing the gay community gets. Of course I find extramarital affairs wrong and find it must be really hard on the wife, but on the other hand, homosexuals wouldn't be so incognito and using "marriage" as a beard if we had healthy attitudes towards the gay community.

I perfectly understood this part - no need to repeat it. I do think it belongs in the gay/Lesbian thread howeve sicne this is about McGreevey resigning - not about him being gay.

And I'm not getting involved with his role as governor because I don't know enough about him, I went to high school in New Jersey and had heard some stuff about him. However, I live in Pennsylvania, so New Jersey's governor was never an interest to me.

Then why are you posting in this thread? Him being governor and resigning and his capabilities as governor ARE the issues. Him being gay is NOT the issue. As I said above- if you want to discuss the gay aspects - go to the gay and lesbian thread.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Fat middle

I agree with Eärniel. hereit would seem odd. And also everybody would criticize it because it'd be seen as using public funds to promote his own image.

I don't see how it coudl be used to promote his own image - since most of the commercials are seen OUTSIDE the state. They don't have an image of the governor or the politics of the state, it's just a way of inviting people to visit. Richarson appearing in New Mexico's commercials does nothing to improve his image with me. He just basically states that he is the governor of New Mexico and welcomes us to visit his state. Just as McGreevey does and many other governors.

Here is the press release on the 2001 winter commercial -

A winter wonderland beckons viewers to discover the warmth of New Jersey this winter in a new 30-second television commercial produced by the New Jersey Commerce & Economic Growth Commission.

"As we enter the holiday season and the winter months, New Jersey is filled with a diverse array of attractions and activities for visitors and residents to enjoy," said acting Governor Donald T. DiFrancesco. "From wonderful historic attractions commemorating the 225th Anniversary of the American Revolution to skiing our slopes, shopping for bargains in our malls, outlets and quaint shops or experiencing the best and brightest performing arts venues, New Jersey has something for everybody this winter."

The commercial, which features the acting Governor and First Lady Diane DiFrancesco, includes footage of some of New Jersey's premier attractions and natural winter beauty, from a carriage ride through beautiful Victorian Cape May to great performances on the ski slopes and at the New Jersey Performing Arts Center in Newark.

"The winter months are always special in New Jersey, and this year will be no exception," said Noreen Bodman, Executive Director of the Office of Travel and Tourism. "We invite you to come and experience the wonderful beauty and the warm hospitality that defines New Jersey. The new commercial does a great job of offering a snapshot of why New Jersey is such a popular getaway for families and friends."

The television commercial will be part of an overall $1.3 million television buy, and will air for four weeks in targeted regional markets on broadcast and cable networks. Those markets include New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore and Connecticut, important markets for New Jersey's $30.1 billion tourism industry.

The television commercial is one facet of the State's multi-dimensional campaign to promote tourism that includes increased print advertising, including a cooperative newspaper campaign, Vacation Value Kits, radio and a proactive public relations effort.

Viewers can also call 1-800 VISIT NJ for the state's Vacation Value Kit, which contains New Jersey's 2001 Travel Guide, a Calendar of Events, state map and money-saving coupons. The coupons can be used at more than 40 tourism businesses where discounts are being offered.

As you can see - the commercials the governor is in aren't necessarily aired or geared toward the state citizens - but to outsiders who don't care about his image. Most of the time we only see them because we get the NY and Philadelphia network channels.

As another example the 2004 Summer tourism campaign...

The first phase of the campaign began airing in April in outer markets in Washington, D.C., Northern Virginia, Baltimore, Maryland, Harrisburg-Lancaster-York and Wilkes-Barre Scranton, Pennsylvania.

All of these are OUTSIDE the New Jersey viewing area.

[Ragnarok]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

You might have been guessing, however you posted it in an accusatory way. With what a terrible governor McGreevey has been - I doubt the Republicans have to use him being gay as a political point. McGreevey did enough things to bury himself during his time as governor.


I perfectly understood this part - no need to repeat it. I do think it belongs in the gay/Lesbian thread howeve sicne this is about McGreevey resigning - not about him being gay.

Then why are you posting in this thread? Him being governor and resigning and his capabilities as governor ARE the issues. Him being gay is NOT the issue. As I said above- if you want to discuss the gay aspects - go to the gay and lesbian thread.

Excuse me, the title of the thread is called Ex-Gov. McGreevey!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is a very general topic. If my post was off topic or belonged in a different thread it would have been done so by the moderators. Nice try anyways, and don't tell me what the issues are in a broad topic like this. Just because those are the issues you are interested in DOES NOT mean mine are not valid.

[Fat middle]

Please, JD and Ragnarok, stay on topic (whatever it be ) and avoid engaging in personal wars. Otherwise this thread will be closed.

[Ragnarok]

Originally Posted by Fat middle

Please, JD and Ragnarok, stay on topic (whatever it be ) and avoid engaging in personal wars. Otherwise this thread will be closed.

I thought I was on topic until I was accused of not being so. I made my point and that is all I'm going to say about it.

EDIT: Alright, someone changed the title of the thread...

[Ben]

<admin>Ragnarok seems to be within the bounds of reasonable discussion for this thread. McGreevey's sexuality was clearly not the driving force behind his resignation, but it's still a facet of this episode. "Gay" or "homosexual" was in all of the headlines the next day.</admin>

<regular user>Like JD, I am not sorry to see McGreevey go. When politicians of my own party have ethical lapses, I am particularly saddened because these scandals could set back our goals and progress in New Jersey. McGreevey was certainly sleazy, but sadly we haven't had a good governor in a while. He had some policy accomplishments in office, and I can't say that the Christie Whitman (Republican) or DiFrancesco (Republican) administrations were any better. Bret Schundler would have been a disaster for the state because his politics are too extreme for NJ.

Sometimes I suspect that Sens. Lautenberg and Corzine are the only honest politicians left in the state, and probably only because they're multi-gazillionaires who can't be bought.

Let's not kid ourselves: everyone's position on the special election is based on politics. Republicans want it because they think that any potential public backlash against Democrats would be most potent this November, as opposed to next November. This has national repercussions as well - if Republicans are motivated to come to the polls in higher numbers this November, the state could be in play in the presidential race, their thinking goes. I think most people are smart enough to separate McGreevey (an early Dean backer) from Kerry, though.

Rep. Menendez (Democrat) and some Democratic party bosses want the special election so that Richard Codey, who will become Acting Governor, can't keep the job. This is because the Democratic Party is divided into different factions, and some bosses want to keep Codey out of power even if it means Democrats are out of power. Menendez hopes to pick up Sen. Corzine's Senate seat if he became Governor. Corzine may want it if he thinks this is his easiest shot at the job.

In general, I don't feel that a special election should be held in these circumstances. If the U.S. president leaves office, the Vice President automatically assumes control for the full remainder of the term. I believe that in most other states, this is the case with their Lt. Governor. New Jersey should adopt an elected Lt. Governor position to solve this problem. This is a silly quirk in our state Constitution.

I suspect that there will only be a special election if Corzine agrees to run. In that case, he'd be the heavy favorite to win, unless the Republicans can unearth Tom Kean Sr.

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

However - since this is a major election year and ALL the polling places will be open throughout the state for the presidential elections - I'm not sure how this wopudl be a waste of money. It may be a waste for the candidates - but it wouldn't really cost the government that much. We have 90 days to prepare for it.

Gubernatorial candidates in NJ are at partially publically financed, so two elections in the space of two years would double the cost to taxpayers. Seems like a waste of money to me, especially considering money is so tight in the state these days. Sources about public financing: Common Cause, Campaign Finance Site, Council of State Governments

If the special election took place, there would be a gubernatorial election in 2004 and 2005. The winner in 2004 would serve one year and then only be eligible to serve four more years if he won again in 2005. Source: Star Ledger

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

It is very possible that Bret Schundler could be elected.

Schundler would never be selected by the GOP to run in the special election unless all other options were exhausted. The GOP establishment in NJ is moderate, while Schundler is an outsider conservative. It is much more likely that the GOP would anoint a moderate or liberal Republican such as Tom Kean Jr. There's even been talk of bringing back Tom Kean Sr., but I'd hope that the 9/11 Commission can remain active to make sure their recommendations are enacted nationwide.

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

And since you made the comment about "I think the right will spin this to their advantage." I think you have a slanted view of the whole thing. Instead of discussing the issue of his resigning - you seem to want to discuss something that isn't really being discussed in NJ and that is him being gay and make accusations of how the "right" is reacting to it.

I'm in New Jersey and I've been discussing these issues. You are correct that McGreevey did enough damage to himself that Republicans wouldn't need to use his sexuality against him - at least not in New Jersey. There are some parts of the country, though, where the fact that there's a Democratic gay governor could potentially be used for political purposes.

I have to agree with Ragnarok's main charge, which is that it's nearly impossible to be openly gay and in high political office. McGreevey did some very bad, unethical things. No doubt about that. However, he's had some powerful demons bottled up in him for some time. The man was forced into the closet by society. He's a Catholic, and the church preaches that homosexuality is immoral. New Jersey may be a tolerant state, but no state has ever had an openly gay governor or senator (until now). I don't believe he would have even been a gubernatorial nominee had he been openly gay. McGreevey's true identity, unfortunately, stood as a direct obstacle to his personal and career goals. What would you have had him do? I'm not saying I approve of his decisions, but he didn't have a lot of good options.

Is this a separate, unrelated issue? Maybe, but I suspect a lot of powerbrokers had quite a bit on dirt on McGreevey, which is one reason he was so beholden to them.