Bio technology

[afro-elf]

Of course we do have a way to reversethe age-counter. It's called telomerase. Good stuff. Once people use that then early age syndrome goes bye bye.

it has the POTENTIAL but at the moment no. unless you read the people who swear by DHEA and similar things.

we have increased the life spans of yeast, worms, flies and mice to date

[mirrille]

Originally posted by Wulažg
Of course we do have a way to reversethe age-counter. It's called telomerase. Good stuff. Once people use that then early age syndrome goes bye bye.

Ummm....careful. Abnormal telomerase levels are a hallmark of malignant cancers.

What does everyone consider to be biotech? I mean, it's not really the same as basic research, but where to draw the line. I think there's some blurring going on these days, of course.

But like anything, it is a tool. You can use a hammer to help build your house, or you can take it and bash your neighbour's brains in. But by and large, hammers of the world are used responsibly. Lots of people need houses. Homocidal crazies who like to hit people with heavy objects, well, we've developed and should continue to develop more effective methods to deal with them. There will always be threats to safety. This is life. But we have to think just as intelligently to deal with bioweapons.

Personally, I look forward to the day when kids no longer have to be doomed to 10 year life-spans, mental retardation, blindness, and anything that comes with having defective genes just because they were unlucky enough that their parent's genes just happened to hit a bad combination. No fault of their own that mommy and daddy were carriers and didn't know it. Also no fault of their own that maybe mommy had to work in the biochem lab right up to the last month of her pregnancy and had an unfortunate accident with a particularly bad mutagen. Not in my lifetime. But a nice little dream.

[Faramir]

I'm with Garina. Never try to play God. You end screw things up, mess up other people, and in the end it's just a disassterous mess.

[mirrille]

Yeah! Prometheus should never have given us fire.
For shame, thinking we could be anything better than particularly wimpy-looking apes.

Cleverness, curiosity, the power of the mind, it is the gift that we have to survive in this world. Let's use it judiciously and try not to shoot ourselves in the foot. It happens. The scorpion has a great defense/hunting tool on it's tail, but it's been known to poison itself. Oops!
But let's not scorn the gift. Appreciate it. Respect it. Use it. Just like any gift.

[afro-elf]

HUN HOW MIRRILLE

[afro-elf]

UT at Austin? Nice city!

San Antonio

[Earniel]

Originally posted by mirrille
The scorpion has a great defense/hunting tool on it's tail, but it's been known to poison itself. Oops!

Really? I always thought a scorpion was immune to it's own poison. Well back to the books it seems for me.

I don't mind biotechnology as long as it's used wisely. I think they rush things too much sometimes. They engineer a new species of corn (or was it maize, can't really remember) and drop it in your food before you even know. They dumped it in the fields without even considering it's interaction with original species. And now they can't control it any more. Marvelous. What if after some years it turns out to be doing more wrong than good? they'll still, we'll still be stuck with it because they lost control.

Now I'm not saying they should stop trying out new thing, I just wish they considered possible consequenses a little more in earnest.

[BeardofPants]

I think it was a species of grass, or something.

And they did it with a strain of salmon as well. Released it w/out thought of consequence, I mean.

[Blackheart]

Bio TECH?

ROFLMAO.

It's mor elike Bio Art at this point. We're at that point where we are just beginging to play with the pretty fire. Eventually it will be useful, but right now it's mostly pretty toys.

Case in point, even though we have "completely" sequenced several organisms, we still have no idea how to exactly locate "genes" or what roles spacer DNA plays, or even a solid understanding of the processes involved in different kinds of replication and repair. And barely a clue as to what roles certain structures in the surrounding protoplasm play in regulation.

We're like children with tinkertoys, we know how to bang things in, but don't expect suspension bridges any time soon.

[afro-elf]

, we still have no idea how to exactly locate "genes"

Can you clarify this? How are genes modified and named if we can not locate them.


Actually "bio-tech" has been around for several thousand years. Biotechnology is a general term describing the directed modification of biological processes. This may be accomplished by introducing new genes into organisms, breeding organisms to form new variants, or treating organisms with specific compounds.

The products of biotechnology are all around us. The yoghurt, beer, wine, and cheese in your refrigerator are products of biotechnology. The pickles, bread, and vinegar in your kitchen cupboard are too. Even your compost bin is a biotechnology factory - a mechanism for harnessing the natural chemical processes of living organisms for your own use.
Biotechnology is simply the use of micro-organisms, and plant and animal cells, to produce materials such as food, medicine, and chemicals that are useful to mankind.
Some products of biotechnology have been around for a long time. Yeasts were first used to brew beer and make wine as long ago as 6000 BC. Leavened bread, which is made using yeast, and cheese, made using bacteria, have been common for hundreds of years.

All those centuries ago people discovered, quite by accident, how to make use of biological processes that occur all the time within living cells. They did not understand the processes, but they could see the results. They discovered, for example, that certain micro-organisms like bacteria and moulds would produce vinegar, beer or wine when grown in large vats. This process was called fermentation. Through trial and error, they learned to control these processes and make large quantities of a limited range of products.

[Cirdan]

Originally posted by mirrille


Ummm....careful. Abnormal telomerase levels are a hallmark of malignant cancers.

Thanks Mirrelle, that was what I was thinking of when I questioned it's use.

[Blackheart]

Originally posted by afro-elf

Can you clarify this? How are genes modified and named if we can not locate them.

Two words. Trial and error. We cannot yet predict, because our model is not accurate enough.

Actually "bio-tech" has been around for several thousand years. Biotechnology is a general term describing the directed modification of biological processes. This may be accomplished by introducing new genes into organisms, breeding organisms to form new variants, or treating organisms with specific compounds.

So has electricity. Not many toaster ovens until recently. However I don't particularly consider "breeding" to fall under the umbrella of bio-tech as the appelation is currently used. Selective breedng programs do not involve direct manipulation of genetic material.

The products of biotechnology are all around us. The yoghurt, beer, wine, and cheese in your refrigerator are products of biotechnology.The pickles, bread, and vinegar in your kitchen cupboard are too.

No, they are the products of selective breeding, which I might add, was accomplished through centuries of trial and error.

Even your compost bin is a biotechnology factory - a mechanism for harnessing the natural chemical processes of living organisms for your own use.

Utilization of natural process hardly qualifies as biotechnology. If It's no more biotechnology than fermentation, or using tannin from oak leaves to harden leather. It's akin to saying using lightning spawned fire is in the same class as running an AC motor on transmitted current.

Biotechnology is simply the use of micro-organisms, and plant and animal cells, to produce materials such as food, medicine, and chemicals that are useful to mankind.

No, those are agricultural products. Biotechnology in the normal usage refers to engineered solutions involving overt or covert manipulation of genetic material.

Some products of biotechnology have been around for a long time. Yeasts were first used to brew beer and make wine as long ago as 6000 BC. Leavened bread, which is made using yeast, and cheese, made using bacteria, have been common for hundreds of years.

All those centuries ago people discovered, quite by accident, how to make use of biological processes that occur all the time within living cells. They did not understand the processes, but they could see the results. They discovered, for example, that certain micro-organisms like bacteria and moulds would produce vinegar, beer or wine when grown in large vats. This process was called fermentation. Through trial and error, they learned to control these processes and make large quantities of a limited range of products.

Trial and error. And that's an agricultural process. Harnesssing plants and animals and their products in their natural or selectively bred states.

I don't particularly relish the prospect of biotechnologists proceeding through a similar process by using trial and error. Though it is unfortunately inevitable. I would prefer to see a more accurately predictive model emerge first. We'll get some useful products by trial and error true.... however you aren't going to see anything on the order of infantile telo-bursts (telomerase "bursting" by all current predictions needs to be done early in life in order to have any anti-aging benefits) until we have a much better method of predicting and explaining exactly what is happening.

[elendili]

I thought they could isolate genes with endonuclease enzymes to cut them out and just see what the gene did by letting the bacterium grow up with a mangled DNA strand. I'm confuzzled . I knew my biology teacher was lying to me

[Blackheart]

Originally posted by elendili
I thought they could isolate genes with endonuclease enzymes to cut them out and just see what the gene did by letting the bacterium grow up with a mangled DNA strand. I'm confuzzled . I knew my biology teacher was lyind to me

That's right. Other wise known as trial and error.

Though now adays they can locate them in strand by using binding "markers". But they still can't predict. It has to be done by unravelling.

It's like having to read a book by tearing out each page and cutting out the words and matching them to a dictionary.

We haven't really learned to "read" yet.

[azalea]

I am against messing with Mother Nature. I agree with the past earlier about cloning a dead baby's DNA or a dead pet's. It's just wrong, as sad as it is, that just should ot be done. I saw one woman who wanted to have a baby with her dead husband's sperm -- gee, that's nice, to bring the kid into the world on purpose with dead father. I saw another woman who wanted to clone her husband (I don't remember if he was dead or dying), so she could have him as a son (can you say nutcase?). And you know there are people that would do this for the right price if they could and come up with all kinds of justifications! Plus there's the scary issue of making "super kids", the rich become "perfect", the poor are left to natural selection (can you say Brave New World/ 1984/ Eloi vs. Morloch/ Stepford children -- this is a very slippery slope!) Either that or the "perfect" kids will end up with a whole new set of tragic and expensive problems we can't forsee (maybe similar to inbreeding problems or something). I mean, who wants "perfect" people anyway? Imperfection makes life interesting. Besides, if you want kids without personality problems, choose very carefully who you make kids with! And raise them well! Natural selection can't prevent all problems, but it's there for a reason. If you don't want stupid, violent, alcoholic kids, don't mate with a stupid violent alcoholic! Responsible people with that know they have genetic problems should adopt!

[Wayfarer]

We've got to realize, for every good product there's going to be a bad one.

For example, there is research underway to genetically correct certain muscle disorders. By removing one gene, they revers muscle atrophy.
Funny thing, though. They same procedure, on a healthy animal, increased muscle mass by something like 80%. I'm not sure if I like the applications for humankind.

Another scary line of development involves neural interfaces. Already they've got a few test apps that, to put it mildly, have me drooling in anticipation. One laboratory has developed an uplink that lets you interface with a computer using an electrode patch. The possibilities for, say, the medicine or defense (Or my favorite, gaming) industries, are astounding.
Last month I read about a different facet of this technology. By implanting circuits in a rat's head, they can control it like a model car. Quite frankly, this bothers me.

Another horribl;e possibility is the development of biological weapons. During the middle ages, a particularly lethal strain was documented. It seems it was airborne, and killed it's victims within hours. Exactly what are we going to do if someone recreates this or another worse bacteria?

[FrodoFriend]

I personally think biotechnology is fascinating. There's a huge amount of stuff to learn in that field, and a huge amount of things to be achieved. Like any new technology, it's controversial, but it also has great potential to help many people. Naturally it's not going to be perfect right away, and like many other things it's a double-edged sword. However, I believe that research should go on; the only way to learn and improve is to try it out. It's going to be a long time before we know enough to use biomanipulation, etc, on human beings anyway. In this case, I think caution and discretion, slow and steady, would be preferable to a bunch of new breakthroughs - both so that people can get used to the idea and so that we can consolidate the technology.

In the end, however, I'm sure biotechnology will go on; people are just too inquisitive to let it be. What will come of it remains to be seen.

[Cirdan]

I got the tour of the Celera Genomics IT area during an interview. The size of the databases required are terabytes. They have use the "shotgun" technique to map the mouse DNA. While many genomic sequences are understood with relation to some diseases and charactericstics, the bulk of it has not been resolved. Plus we've accumulated tons of junk sequences over the years, and others that are dormant or vestigial.

It will be a while until significant uses are found. The speed with which these discovers are made is throttled by regulations that have chased off investors. Since the effort, unlike the space program, is mostly a private effort, cash is important.

Another scary line of development involves neural interfaces. Already they've got a few test apps that, to put it mildly, have me drooling in anticipation. One laboratory has developed an uplink that lets you interface with a computer using an electrode patch. The possibilities for, say, the medicine or defense (Or my favorite, gaming) industries, are astounding.

Resistance is futile! Assimilate! Assilimate!

Last month I read about a different facet of this technology. By implanting circuits in a rat's head, they can control it like a model car. Quite frankly, this bothers me.

I saw the rats on the Daily Show of all places. Pretty weird.

[webwizard333]

How they controlled the rats is the scary part. Giving them pleasure and pain signals based on their actions. Think of whta humans will do with that ability, probably not world domination, but if you think drugs are addictive, try pure pleasure stimulations. You'll find the people will lose touch with relaity and die from conditions such as starvation (easily overrided). But that has less to do with biotechnology (depending on your definition).

[BeardofPants]

My favourite game of all time had a neural interfacing system. (System Shock) Forget the Big Brother dystopia, welcome to my nightmare.