08-26-2004, 06:59 PM | #21 |
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The Nazgul, who were right there, would have made him give it right back.
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08-26-2004, 09:41 PM | #22 |
AngAdan
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Bill Ferny had one of the man type botanical names of Bree; He was later a member of the Chief's ruffians in the shire of which there is no suggestion of hobbits among them; He lived in a house, suitable enough for the southern orc looking man to hide in, in Bree, not a hole; 9as above noted) "Over the hedge a man (Ferny) was staring Boldly"; "swarthy" an adjective not know to be applied to hobbits;and Finally and nearly conclusively "you will wake the Chief's big man" who turn out to be Ferny.
QED Last edited by Lefty Scaevola : 08-26-2004 at 09:43 PM. |
08-27-2004, 12:11 AM | #23 |
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So I think with all this evidence that clearly supports Bill Ferny being a man that I will agree that he in fact is a man.
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08-27-2004, 02:18 AM | #24 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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Yeah we establisted that earlier but thanks anyway Lefty.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
08-27-2004, 02:50 AM | #25 |
the Shrike
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Well, now to throw the spanner in the proverbial works. Hobbits are men.
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08-27-2004, 02:53 AM | #26 |
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What?
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
08-27-2004, 03:03 AM | #27 |
the Shrike
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Yep. Learn something new everyday, huh?
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08-27-2004, 03:04 AM | #28 |
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yeah well they do have genders and therefore roughy 50% of Hobbits are men. And I guess from the quotes used to proove he is of the human race you could also take it that alls that it means is that he is male.
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08-27-2004, 03:08 AM | #29 |
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Yeah thats something that has always confused me, the difference in LotR between man and male. Eg. Could a male hobbit or elf, or dwarf etc killed the Witch-King or was it males that couldn't not just male men.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
08-27-2004, 03:20 AM | #30 |
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Thats the whole tricky prophecy. THe prophecy doesnt mean any Hobbit could kill it only that Merry could kill it because he wasn t a man in one sense and Eowyn could kill it because she wasnt a man in another sense. I think the prophecy meant only those two could kill him but it just worded it in a really wierd way.
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08-27-2004, 03:26 AM | #31 |
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But if has BoP says hobbit male are men then Merry ouldn't have been able to help slay him.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
08-27-2004, 03:28 AM | #32 |
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I think BoP meant that he was male. In one sense he could slay him cause he wasnt of the race of men.
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08-27-2004, 03:34 AM | #33 |
the Shrike
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No. Hobbits are men, as in, of the race of men. Hobbits related to men... ring any bells?
Merry had a special blade that undid the spells cast over the nazgul... which is why eowyn was able to do as much damage as she did.
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08-27-2004, 03:34 AM | #34 |
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But then the two reasons contradict.
Merry- Wasn't a race of man but was male Eowyn- Wasn't male but was the race of man.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
08-27-2004, 03:38 AM | #35 |
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But thats jsut it T.D. thats the deal with prophecys. Usually they have double meanings and didnt the prophecy say no man will kill him not he cant be killed by a man. I thinkt thats the dfference.
And BoP where does it say Hobbits are reallted to men. In lotr tolkien says hobbit's origins are unknown.
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08-27-2004, 03:41 AM | #36 |
the Shrike
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Check your prologue, guys, it's in there.
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08-27-2004, 03:44 AM | #37 |
the Shrike
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Regarding the "prophecy"; the witchking was killed by Eowyn.... who states something to the effect that she is no man. Merry did NOT kill the witchking; he merely broke the spells, thus enabling eowyn to make the killing blow.
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08-27-2004, 03:46 AM | #38 |
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And it says somewhere about no mortal weapon being able to harm him, but that might be someone else.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
08-27-2004, 03:47 AM | #39 |
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Yeah that woudl fit along the lines of the prophecy the way I remember it
as the witchking shall not be kiled by any man instead of HE cannot be killed by any man I think everyone including the witch-king misinterpreted the prophecy
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08-27-2004, 03:50 AM | #40 |
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Yeah that would make sense.
Like on the doors of Moria 'Speak friend and enter' is misinterpreted when it should be 'Say friend and enter.'
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
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