03-03-2003, 12:21 AM | #21 | |
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to Artanis Being slain by a friend is often part of the Warrior ethic
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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03-03-2003, 03:36 AM | #22 | ||
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03-03-2003, 05:32 PM | #23 |
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I could think of two reasons why he asked to be killed rather than do it himself.
1.) The Oath - In Middle-Earth it seemed like Oaths had a strong power that could not be broken once given. They overrode the Free Will of the Taker and they were bound magically by there words beyond there control. Even if Meadros had despaired and desired to give up his spirit, his Oath forbid him on giving up his quest to regain the Silmarills and therefore breaking it. (He therefore needed Fingon, a non-oath taker to kill him.) 2.) The simplist is that Elves have to 100% want to die to give up there spirit, but there was still some small subconcious spark inside of Meadros that still wanted to live. (Otherwise Elves would be keeling over all the time when ever they had brief suicidal thoughts.) |
03-03-2003, 06:05 PM | #24 | ||
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03-03-2003, 06:39 PM | #25 | |
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03-03-2003, 07:05 PM | #26 | |
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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03-03-2003, 07:19 PM | #27 | |
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The Oath is part of the whole pride thing I was talking about. And he is not going to ask Manwe for help when he was locked out of Valinor with his kin. That just wouldn't be his style. |
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03-03-2003, 07:25 PM | #28 | |
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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03-03-2003, 07:40 PM | #29 | |
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But Fingon and Maedhros were different Elves. I always got the impression that Maedhros was above and beyond when it came to pride. That's why I said what I said before. But you may feel different. |
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03-04-2003, 01:56 AM | #30 |
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I have to say that I agree with most of the posts about Maedhros pride and character.
I would like to note a difference between M*riel and Maedhros. M*riel's grief was only a matter of her fëa, while Maedhros pain was almost a thing of the hröa, though as time passed, it affected his fëa too. I just don't think that it ever ocurred to him to leave his hröa as M*riel did. There is also the Morgoth factor, he was purposely keeping him alive, I don't know if there is a way for Morgoth to deny such a fleeing of the hröa, but that is another possibility. Maedhros could have not given up, he gave his word, and he had to keep it to the end.
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
03-04-2003, 07:27 AM | #31 | |
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03-04-2003, 09:03 PM | #32 | |
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03-04-2003, 11:13 PM | #33 | |
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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03-05-2003, 03:41 AM | #34 | |
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03-05-2003, 06:27 AM | #35 | |
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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03-05-2003, 09:05 PM | #36 | |
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BTW, what happened to your cute typing poem? I liked it. |
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03-05-2003, 11:02 PM | #37 | |
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03-06-2003, 03:36 AM | #38 | |
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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03-06-2003, 09:38 AM | #39 | |
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02-19-2009, 07:09 PM | #40 |
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[QUOTE=Elanor Gamgee;198882]... the Elves could die, and did die, by their will; as for example because of great grief or bereavement, or because of the frustration of their dominant desires and purposes. This wilful death was not regarded as wicked, but it was a fault implying some defect or taint in the fea, and those who came to Mandos by this means might be refused further incarnate life. QUOTE]
I thought I remembered that that quote was rejected by Tolkien and replaced with something else... maybe I'm remembering wrong it would also bring up the question: why would Maedhros need to jump in a fiery to pit when he killed himself in the end if he could have just willingly dropped dead? |
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