07-13-2004, 12:54 PM | #21 |
The Dude
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hmm but maybe the high prices for drugs is the best deterrent, i think that most people would not steal to buy drugs, in the small population that are serious addicts many wouldnt go to a criminal extreme to get money, and those that would a lot wouldnt care if the price was lowered they would think well i can still get around using MY money to buy drugs even if they are cheaper, i can keep my money and steal to buy MORE drugs...
heres an interesting thought i would not think it that unfair to compare the number of drug addicts who steal to support their addiction to the number of gambling addicts who steal to support theirs, now why dont we make both illegal maybe the government really is too stupid to realise they could make money by legalising drugs or maybe they have some sort of *shock horror* MORALITY
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07-13-2004, 01:01 PM | #22 | |
Elf Lord
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It makes much more sense to take it drug-by-drug. However, there needs to be a rational debate about it and I don't think that either side is in a state to do that yet. A lot of the "pro-drug" views are based on outdated concepts of the effects. Your average sixties hippie would have their head blown off by the skunk that people are smoking these days. Evidence is just starting to accumulate that marjuana can cause mental health problems in people who are predisposed to them. Some drugs I wouldn't recommend legalising at all, e.g. LSD: some people simply should not even try it. And I don't think that the harms of drug use are confined to the user: it affects families, friends, people who get run over by someone hepped up on goof balls, etc. Having said all that, I generally tend towards the "informed choice" view wherever possible. I think that people will generally choose to do the sensible thing. |
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07-13-2004, 01:10 PM | #23 | |
The Dude
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Just an entirely irrelevant question to everyone, LSD reminded me of it, if you could experiance a "trip" but in full safeness (all danger eliminated both by chemical **** ups and falling over etc ) would you do it. I remember vaguely having a conversation with Lin about it, she of course wouldnt im all for it...
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07-13-2004, 02:12 PM | #24 |
Advocatus Diaboli
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i'm not arguing at all that drugs are not bad for you (double negative )... they are very bad for you in many ways... and the people around you... as is gambling, overeating, or just about any other over-obsession
my point is that the whole 'illegality' aspect makes matters worse... in the early-80s cocaine was expensive, about $50 for a small amount, and around $150 for enough to do with a few friends... the result... crack was developed, a cheap, and arguably more dangerous substitute (mostly due to inconsistant manufacture) legalization will not make using drugs any less dangerous... but it will take the danger out of obtaining them
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07-13-2004, 05:10 PM | #25 |
Quasi Evil
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but Im in favor of keeping crack illegal for the same reason im in favor of keeping saturday night specials illegal: because they have incredible potential to really do some serious fatal damage. sure its inconsistant that pot is illegal while a drug like alcohol is advertised from the mountain tops to kids by multi billion dollar companies. but heroin or meth or crack is another thing entirely. legalize pot if you like. take that segment of state money and resources it takes to deal with pot heads and pot dealers and turn it to another more useful direction like treatment and education. but no sense legalizing the seriously hard drugs. two wrongs dont make a right.
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07-13-2004, 10:14 PM | #26 | |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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07-14-2004, 04:37 AM | #27 | |
Elf Lord
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07-14-2004, 07:35 AM | #28 | |
The Dude
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07-14-2004, 09:56 AM | #29 |
Elven Warrior
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Speaking about buying or ordering bongs there are two stores near where I live that sell that stuff. Pipes, steam rollers, bongs etc. I guess they are allowed as long as they sell a packet of tobacco with it. Drugs shouldn't be legal. I mean there are enough legal prescription drugs around that people misuse yet alone making illegal ones legal. I've seen too many people ruin their lives by using drugs and it doesn't just ruin theirs but everyone around them too.
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07-14-2004, 10:02 AM | #30 |
Elven Warrior
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And as for tobacco (cigerettes) being more harmful than marijuana, it is. They put like hundreds of other chemicals in cigerettes. Marijuana is just picked and smoked unless someone laces it with something else. I think cigerettes are way more addictive than marijuana.
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07-14-2004, 10:33 AM | #31 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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They say that cigarettes are one of the most addictive things out there. It is easier to quit most drugs than cigarettes. I don't see a big problem legalizing marijuana. Plus the government could tax the hell out of it and make a ton of money like they do with cigarettes. One thing I have heard though, is that they already make a fortune in illegal drug busts every day, nationwide, by confiscating various different drugs including marijuana and thousands of dollars made in deals.
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07-14-2004, 10:40 AM | #32 | |
Elven Warrior
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07-14-2004, 11:17 AM | #33 |
Elven Warrior
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Yes, I've heard the cocaine-banknote thing before, though I doubt it is as high as 80%- that would be incredible.
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07-14-2004, 12:00 PM | #34 |
Elf Lord
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There's not enough evidence to say definitively that marijuana on its own is less harmful than tobacco (it's usually smoked with tobacco of course), but, given what we know about tobacco, it's got a heck of a long way to go to catch up. Put simply, if you smoke cigarettes, there's a 50% chance it'll kill you. Imagine the headlines if any illegal drug had those statistics.
How ironic that you have to buy tobacco with your bong; it's like insisting that you chow down a bunch of pork fat every time you buy low fat margarine. We do know that tobacco is very much more addictive than marijuana. While the general perception that marijuana is not addictive at all is probably not quite true, it's nowhere near as addictive as nicotine, which is harder than heroin to quit. |
07-14-2004, 12:22 PM | #35 |
Elven Warrior
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I don't know anyone that smokes marijuana that smokes it along with tobacco. The most I've heard is people putting it in cigars and calling it a blunt.
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07-14-2004, 12:48 PM | #36 |
Advocatus Diaboli
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smoking marijuana mixed with tobacco is very common in europe... it is almost unheardof in the US... which may explain the differing perceptions here
in part, it may be due to the fact that, outside certain countries, marijuana in quanity is harder to come by cheaply in europe... so the 'mixing' was a way to stretch it out on the rest, my point again is that i don't really think making drugs illegal decreases availability or use... studies throughout the 'drug war' in the US show little, if no, variation in use (it is hard to tell if, during that point in time, people were just less willing to admit they used drugs) but i know without a doubt that illegalization adds a whole new dimension of money and crime to the whole issue, outside of the obvious direct effects of drugs... i guess i see drug abuse more as a disease than a crime... would it make sense to make sex illegal in order to prevent aids in a place like africa?
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07-14-2004, 04:38 PM | #37 |
Rohirrim Warrior
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They way I see it doesn't matter whether drugs are legalized because there is no stopping it. Whether you like it or not, people will find a way to smuggle in drugs and have been doing so for years. I just graduated high school and to tell you the truth I could have gotten any drug that I wanted with one phone call. The fact is drugs will always be unsafe and available to kids/teenagers, it doesn't matter if they are legal or illegal. If you think that your children won't be exposed to drugs because they are illegal, you are completely ignorant. Making drugs illegal has only caused other serious problems. It is sad because the illegalization of drugs has done nothing to stop the demand for nor decrease the supply. Either way you can't win.
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07-14-2004, 04:40 PM | #38 | |
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07-14-2004, 04:44 PM | #39 | |
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07-14-2004, 04:46 PM | #40 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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